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The Suh Resolution

What will be the Suh Resolution?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. What will be the Suh Resolution?

    • He plays this season and then leaves for Free Agency
      6
    • He will sign a long term extension.
      10
    • He will be traded before or during the NFL Draft
      5


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Judging an executive on the only thing that matters is silly? I guess we can agree to disagree, I could care less how "talented" the fans or national pundits think a team is, at the end of the day you either win or you lose...you don't get partial points for losing with a talented roster. Last year was rough, but lets remember Mayhew was the one who hired Schwartz, Mayhew was the one who choose to keep him for last season. If Schwartz was such a horrible coach that he single-handedly took a talented team and turned them into a below average team shouldn't Mayhew have been the first one to notice that and take action? I don't agree with the argument that you can place blame on the coach and exempt the general manager especially when Schwartz did nothing outside of the ordinary last season. Secondly, we were largely injury free last season but regardless, great organizations don't let injuries stop them; the Patriots the last few years have been ravaged by injuries, they sustain success because they have depth due to great drafting and scouting.

And I think that a .362 winning percentage over 5 years could be argued as being "egregious." I guess we will see though, the season is fast approaching!

Considering nobody was winning with that roster the first 3 years, particularly with the Stafford injury, yes, judging him on winning percentage is stupid. His job was to build something long term, not win short term. He hasn't won enough the last two years, I've admitted that, but I also think he's fixed it. And again, if it doesn't show on the field, he should be gone.

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Unfortunately, even though I think most rationale fans would want Mayhew gone unless he wins double digit games, I really don't think that is going to hold true. I think Caldwell and Mayhew will be retained regardless of their record. I know Ford Jr. isn't his dad, but I also don't think he will fire Caldwell after one year and I don't see how he could fire Mayhew without firing Caldwell. I personally think Mayhew bought himself at least 2 (possibly 3) more years with the Schwartz firing.

I don't think he fires Caldwell directly, but he'll probably hire a new GM and let him make the call.

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You wouldnt judge him on how many games he wins? Mr. Ford? Is that you?

.

No big decision should be made in a vaccuum. Its that simple really. I'd have expected faster results if Stafford never got hurt probably.

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Unfortunately, even though I think most rationale fans would want Mayhew gone unless he wins double digit games, I really don't think that is going to hold true. I think Caldwell and Mayhew will be retained regardless of their record. I know Ford Jr. isn't his dad, but I also don't think he will fire Caldwell after one year and I don't see how he could fire Mayhew without firing Caldwell. I personally think Mayhew bought himself at least 2 (possibly 3) more years with the Schwartz firing.

TBH, I really have never seen much in his observable actions, either before or since his father's death, that indicate WCF Jr has a very high interest level in the lions. Enough that he doesn't want the family name associated with failure. but beyond that, It's hard to see from his level of public involvement or any of his statements that he is interested in taking a very active role with the Lions. Maybe the idea will grow on him -- but so far I don't see much reason to believe it. His energy and interest for many years seem pretty focused on his role at FoMoCo.

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My problem with these types of evaluations is that the only way a team can be expected to make the playoffs is if that team is in the top echelon of NFL teams. Those teams are the types that should win 13 games a season, and if they miss a few plays here and there in a close game, they still end up winning 10-11 games. I'm talking about the teams that don't really end up in a lot of close games.

There just aren't that many teams. The lions certainly are not that.

If they have built themselves a 10 win team, which I think is possible based on what I read and hear, that's great. But there are a lot of other 10 win teams. Football results are so dependent on a few plays a game, that if stafford makes a bad pass or Calvin drops a pass he could should have caught, the lions could end up with a 7 or 8 win season.

They have been so bad for so long that it sounds like an excuse, but I think the reasoning behind the excuse is valid.

The problem is that they haven't been a team with 9-10 win talent for very long. How many seasons has it been? Three? They made the playoffs one year and got beat by an upper echelon team.

They missed the next two years and seemed to have lost a lot of close games.

Coaching and roster construction can only count for so much. The guys on the field still have to get it done on the field.

Firing Schwartz was fair. Whether it was his fault or not is irrelevant. Coaches just aren't that important unless they are great so there is no problem with getting a new one. Schwartz proved that he was not great. That's all that matters.

If they go out and win 4 games, sure, fire Mayhew. If they only win 8 or 9, then I'm not so sure it makes sense to just fire him based on a black/white make the playoffs mandate.

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no, it doesn't. Almost not at all.

This is 100% true though. Double digit wins and a playoff appearance(ideally a win) or heads must roll.

As much of a supporter I am of the current team/GM etc...I agree that something needs to happen this year or we need to go back to square one...I freaking hate football! How many rebuilds are we going to have to endure? I was always a big fan of the idea that you need stability and continuity with a coach/playbook etc. No matter if they are pros or not if you keep introducing new playbooks, and different schemes and philosophies it is going to be damn near impossible to be a winner.

The most stories franchises in the NFL all have stability SOMEWHERE in the organization...whether it be GM, coach, a core group of franchise players etc.

Everyone points at WCF SR as our 'stability' and puts the blame on him....he gets HUGE blame for keeping the Millen trainwreck around as long as he did, but I am not sure what he does that keeps the team back. Maybe it was his orders to draft certain players which jacked the team up, but who the hell knows if he ever did that?

I don't.

If he is simply the owner and never pulled any of the 'draft this guy!' or 'trade for this guy' stuff I am not sure what else he can do. I am not just referring to the latest ineptitude, but rather the legacy as far back as 1990. Millen was the biggest mistake in that time frame and probably set the team back 15 years. The 7/8 he was here...doubled because of how bad it was when he left.

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..... but I am not sure what he does that keeps the team back......

From what I gathered, WCF Sr was a pretty cynical owner for a big swath across the middle of his tenure. He was basically OK with the Lions as long as they made good money, and the Lions could make good money by drafting a few historically dynamic players to fill that big stadium but not straining to do much else: 'Fannies in the seats' used to be the Lions mantra - not necessarily trophies. IMO that lack of urgency to win eventually became the chronic infection of the organization.

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From what I gathered, WCF Sr was a pretty cynical owner for a big swath across the middle of his tenure. He was basically OK with the Lions as long as they made good money, and the Lions could make good money by drafting a few historically dynamic players to fill that big stadium but not straining to do much else: 'Fannies in the seats' used to be the Lions mantra - not necessarily trophies. IMO that lack of urgency to win eventually became the chronic infection of the organization.

Could be...I guess that goes with the modern era as well because fannies in the seats means nothing in terms o revenue. It is all about the shared revenue with TV contracts. This is the biggest reason the price of seats keeps getting crazy. I honestly do not think they care if they sell a single ticket.

The NFL (if it is still around) in 30-40 years will be an exclusive ticket the likes of what is not comparable today IMO.

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No big decision should be made in a vaccuum. Its that simple really. I'd have expected faster results if Stafford never got hurt probably.

I think that it is his fifth year in charge and that the lions need to produce in the field to justify keeping him in charge.

Even throwing out the first two years, the lions have rarely had any sustained level of winning under mayhew. At some point you need to realize whatever his vision is, it just isnt working. To me that was last year, but I can see keeping him. If they continue to flounder this year, then he should go. If they win ten games and miss a wc spot, that would be something to think about. But 9-7 and missing the playoffs? I would send him out unless they had some serious injury issues that werent to players he drafted who already had serious injury issues.

at some point management is responsible for the employees performance. If the employees continue to fail, management should go.

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The Lions were an 11 win team with any other coach last year. Last year was the year for Schwartz, he failed, he got fired. Mayhew moved on.

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I think that it is his fifth year in charge and that the lions need to produce in the field to justify keeping him in charge.

Even throwing out the first two years, the lions have rarely had any sustained level of winning under mayhew. At some point you need to realize whatever his vision is, it just isnt working. To me that was last year, but I can see keeping him. If they continue to flounder this year, then he should go. If they win ten games and miss a wc spot, that would be something to think about. But 9-7 and missing the playoffs? I would send him out unless they had some serious injury issues that werent to players he drafted who already had serious injury issues.

at some point management is responsible for the employees performance. If the employees continue to fail, management should go.

Sounds like we pretty much agree here. I just don't like taking his winning percentage out of context. 2012 was a major setback though and 2013 was a disappointment.

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Tim Twentyman ‏@ttwentyman 4m

The #Lions have tabled contract discussions with Ndamukong Suh until after the season

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Does extending suh (at the end of the season) basically depend on how well the team performs this year?

Or do you think he is dead set on leaving?

I don't see how they can justify giving him the franchise tag based on how much it would cost.

This is a big year for the lions. But does it feel like this is the best team they have out together in a long time? I sort of feel that way.

Do they still have glaring weaknesses in multiple spots?

It's the secondary, right? It's always the secondary.

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Tim Twentyman ‏@ttwentyman 4m

The #Lions have tabled contract discussions with Ndamukong Suh until after the season

good

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The Lions were an 11 win team with any other coach last year. Last year was the year for Schwartz, he failed, he got fired. Mayhew moved on.

11 wins? Good lord its early for you to be that drunk.

And if that were true, mayhew deserves to be fired for keeping schwartz!!!!

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Tim Twentyman ‏@ttwentyman 4m

The #Lions have tabled contract discussions with Ndamukong Suh until after the season

he is loooooooooong goooooone!

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...

Do they still have glaring weaknesses in multiple spots?

...

where ever the injuries all pile up at the same position, as they always seem to.

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I don't think he fires Caldwell directly, but he'll probably hire a new GM and let him make the call.

The guy hasn't even coached a game for Detroit yet and there's fans talking about when he will be fired. I get it, it's the Lions and they will underachieve.

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This will be the last season Suh plays for the Lions. It is pretty clear that he doesn't want to play in Detroit and/or he wants more than a truckload of money. It is too bad Detroit will get nothing in return when he leaves.

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Suh in a contract year could well put up a defensive MVP performance.

Suh is very talented, maybe one of the most talented at his position.

It's just his aggressive nature and reputation of playing dirty that makes our D implode, as well as getting extra penalties.

I'll take that monster year from him, it would help us to win. And I would think about filling his position and a couple of other spots with what it would have cost to keep him. Stopping negotiations hurts Suh more than the Lions. If he gets hurt, his price will drop. And maybe it was the Lions who didn't want Suh here, long-term.

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I agree with the above sentiments. He Gone!!!

It's pretty apparent that Suh doesn't want to be a Lion much longer and that he wants to test the free agent market. Mayhew dropped the ball by not getting value for him while he could, now he's going to lose him for nothing. It sucks but it is what it is.

At least they will have plenty of cap space to rebuild the defense and maybe spread out the talent a bit more if you want to take a potential positive out of this. Maybe get a cornerback worth a damn for a change.

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I agree with the above sentiments. He Gone!!!

It's pretty apparent that Suh doesn't want to be a Lion much longer and that he wants to test the free agent market.

I'm not entirely sure this is the case. Suh has always been a "free agent" in the sense that he has looked out for his own best interests. He got leverage in this situation and he is going to use it to get the best free agent deal he possibly can. If the Lions give him the best offer, I don't expect him to turn it down. I don't think he "doesn't want to be a Lion," I think he wants to be the highest paid DT, and possibly defensive player, in NFL history.

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Suh leaving would hurt the Lions in the near term, but with proper management -- never a given with the Lions -- it should be a benefit long term. Having so much of the cap tied up in three players doesn't leave much left for the the rest of the roster, and it seems like it's just a recipe for mediocrity.

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I agree with the above sentiments. He Gone!!!

It's pretty apparent that Suh doesn't want to be a Lion much longer and that he wants to test the free agent market. Mayhew dropped the ball by not getting value for him while he could, now he's going to lose him for nothing. It sucks but it is what it is.

At least they will have plenty of cap space to rebuild the defense and maybe spread out the talent a bit more if you want to take a potential positive out of this. Maybe get a cornerback worth a damn for a change.

If you were the Lions would you want to take the gigantic cap it by trading him straight up? I really don't think they were going to find a team to take on his contract and I am sure he didn't want to sign with anyone now because he wants his Free Agency. He wants to be the highest paid d-lineman ever. Winning? I don't know if that's his motivation. For some guys it isn't. So now they have two DT that are in contract years. Hopefully they play their asses off. Tired of Suh. He's about Suh and not a team guy. Someone on the radio made a valid point. Since Suh has been in the league 8 teams have gone to the Super Bowl. Suh was not on any of them. He's not the end-all, be-all of football players. If he left, he gives them around 20 million in cap space and they seem to have most of the other big money guys locked up. They can get 3-5 quality players and probably 3 starters out of that. Yeah some of the room goes if they sign Fairley, but they could actually end up being better.

Yeah, Suh's a great player, but he just doesn't seem like a team guy. Stafford and Calvin were willing to re-negotiate to help the team. Not Suh.

Prediciton - He goes to the Cowboys. Then he'll get all the mega-attention he desires. It will be another reason to hate them even more.

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