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The Suh Resolution

What will be the Suh Resolution?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. What will be the Suh Resolution?

    • He plays this season and then leaves for Free Agency
      6
    • He will sign a long term extension.
      10
    • He will be traded before or during the NFL Draft
      5


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I must be missing something but what is this mismanagement that you speak of?

They signed one of the best WRs on the free agent market which was a primary need, signed a decent veteran safety to a cheap contract which was another need and re-signed Bell which I'm sure we can all agree was a necessary move. The Pettigrew contract was puzzling but other than that, I can't think of many other Mayhew moves over the past several seasons that have reeked of mismanagement. I have liked just about all of his free agent signings and the drafting has gotten better as well.

What screwed over the Lions cap situation moreso than anything else was the outrageous rookie contracts that were given to top picks prior to the new labor agreement and having no choice but to pay a receiver who happens to be their franchise player top dollar. That's just an example of poor circumstance as opposed to cap mismanagement.

Waiting a year too long to fire Schwartz and staff was the other foul up. Otherwise, I think Mayhew has done an admirable job. Keep in mind the atrocious mess that he inherited so I wouldn't look at his record and make a judgment of his GMing abilities based solely on that.

Only a Lions fan could look at 1 winning season in five years and think "that guy is doing a hell of a job!"

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Maybe it is my ignorance, but I don't believe this. Yes, there is one head executive (the General Manager) but there are other executives that are there to help support that figurehead and influence their decisions. I don't believe that Martin Mayhew single-handedly scouts every single professional, collegiate, and foreign player...I don't believe that he goes into the draft or through free agency and simple ignores all the other men and women that the organization pays a great deal of money to research. If he does, I think that says a great deal about the ineptitude of the executive.

And even if you want to use your criteria that Mayhew is the main guy now and we should simply forget about or otherwise not acknowledge that he has been a personnel executive over the last 14 miserable years...his record as THE guy is just as miserable: .362 winning percentage. Over the last two years (which were void of any sort of a catastrophic rash of injuries) he has a winning percentage of .343. The main highlights of Mayhew's regime have been making it to a single wild card game and getting embarrassed over a 5 year period which included having the #1 overall pick, #2 overall pick, #13th overall pick, and #5 overall pick. By any and every statistical measure, Mayhew has been awful...unless of course you are simply comparing him to Millen.

Supporting and influencing aren't the same as making decisions. I don't know what your point is here. I never said anything contrary to the any of the points in your first paragraph. You are going to have multiple guys under you and they aren't going to all agree on everything. The top guy makes the call and pulls the trigger.

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Only a Lions fan could look at 1 winning season in five years and think "that guy is doing a hell of a job!"

I don't think you can say that Mayhew is doing " a hell of a job", but his winning percentage is a poor way to look at it. He took over an expansion roster. It was a minimum 3 year rebuilding project, similar to Jacksonville right now. Then his #1 pick and QB missed most of two seasons(which he has seemingly recovered from).

We made the playoffs in a reasonable amount of time,but Mayhew has definitely made some mistakes that lead to our regression(specifically Broyles/Best/Young/Leshoure). At the same time, I don't think last year's issues were a GM problem. He's on thin ice for sure. He needs a double digit win season to keep his job.

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the old system definitely didnt help. But you have to be able to manage it and the lions didnt do it well.

and why would they not pick up fairley's option? Now theyre going to be down two dt's. They must be going to a 3-4, they'll have no choice.

That might have been the plan all along. Fairley would not fit a 3-4 at all. Suh would.

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Only a Lions fan could look at 1 winning season in five years and think "that guy is doing a hell of a job!"

Don't twist my words into something that I didn't say. I really hate when people do that, it's really annoying.

I said that he has done an "admirable" job all things considered. Never said that he was doing a hell of a job.

All I said was that he has made some nice free agency signings over the last few seasons, I don't think that's debatable and his previous draft was a strong one which I don't think can be debated either.

He was handed a mess of epic proportions, basically an expansion franchise and helped turn them into a competitive team pretty quickly. He has certainly made mistakes along the way some of which I noted in my post but my point to Echo was that I don't think there has been a lot of mismanagement by him over the last few seasons that has them cap strapped. A big part of the cap issues were due to Stafford and Suh's rookie deals and having to pay CJ franchise money (would you have not paid him?). When you have 3 of the highest paid players at those positions, it's going to be hard to have a lot of cap flexibility.

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......What screwed over the Lions cap situation moreso than anything else was the outrageous rookie contracts that were given to top picks prior to the new labor agreement......

I wish the agreement would have helped teams that had multiple top 5 picks that were being paid outrageous amounts of money from their rookie contracts.

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I don't think you can say that Mayhew is doing " a hell of a job", but his winning percentage is a poor way to look at it. He took over an expansion roster. It was a minimum 3 year rebuilding project, similar to Jacksonville right now. Then his #1 pick and QB missed most of two seasons(which he has seemingly recovered from).

We made the playoffs in a reasonable amount of time,but Mayhew has definitely made some mistakes that lead to our regression(specifically Broyles/Best/Young/Leshoure). At the same time, I don't think last year's issues were a GM problem. He's on thin ice for sure. He needs a double digit win season to keep his job.

In hindsight, his biggest mistake was letting schwartz coach last season.

we'll see if hiring caldwell was his last mistake.

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In hindsight, his biggest mistake was letting schwartz coach last season.

we'll see if hiring caldwell was his last mistake.

Yup, I was going to add something along these lines. I'm very optimistic about Caldwell, but regardless of my feelings, he needs to have instant success or he's a failure as a hire.

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That might have been the plan all along. Fairley would not fit a 3-4 at all. Suh would.

I disagree with this. Ftr, most teams play a hybrid of some sorts these days and we will definitely do so under Austin.

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Did you black out and think you where in a basketball or hockey thread? Is there a lot of foreign football player scouting going on that I'm not aware of?

I wouldn't call it a lot, by any means...but we did sign kickalicious (who was famous more so for his youtube video than anything), but I also know that there were a few prospects from Canada that were drafted this year. I imagine as football becomes more international (which seems to be the goal) it will become a bigger market.

2014 NFL Draft: Canadian med student could be a draft gem - CBSSports.com

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I must be missing something but what is this mismanagement that you speak of?

They signed one of the best WRs on the free agent market which was a primary need, signed a decent veteran safety to a cheap contract which was another need and re-signed Bell which I'm sure we can all agree was a necessary move. The Pettigrew contract was puzzling but other than that, I can't think of many other Mayhew moves over the past several seasons that have reeked of mismanagement. I have liked just about all of his free agent signings and the drafting has gotten better as well.

What screwed over the Lions cap situation moreso than anything else was the outrageous rookie contracts that were given to top picks prior to the new labor agreement and having no choice but to pay a receiver who happens to be their franchise player top dollar. That's just an example of poor circumstance as opposed to cap mismanagement.

Waiting a year too long to fire Schwartz and staff was the other foul up. Otherwise, I think Mayhew has done an admirable job. Keep in mind the atrocious mess that he inherited so I wouldn't look at his record and make a judgment of his GMing abilities based solely on that.

The rookie contract obviously didn't help, but they have been resigned and restructured multiple times already which have led to this point. The atrocious mess that he inherited he also helped in the building of and over the last two seasons (when you claim Mayhew has been doing practically everything right) we have gone 11-21, that is a full three years after Millen got fired.

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Aside from the 2013 draft, Mayhew has done nothing to impress me. Before the 0-16 debacle we were 7-9 the previous year, and that's basically where we have been under Mayhew. If you put a prime Calvin Johnson and Matt Stafford on those Millen teams and they would have been finishing .500 or better.

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The rookie contract obviously didn't help, but they have been resigned and restructured multiple times already which have led to this point. The atrocious mess that he inherited he also helped in the building of and over the last two seasons (when you claim Mayhew has been doing practically everything right) we have gone 11-21, that is a full three years after Millen got fired.

Well yah, you get restructured because your cap hit is so big from the initial deal. Its not a separate thing. If they didn't restructure them, people would all be pissed that we couldn't sign any FAs like Quin,Bush and Tate.

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Well yah, you get restructured because your cap hit is so big from the initial deal. Its not a separate thing. If they didn't restructure them, people would all be pissed that we couldn't sign any FAs like Quin,Bush and Tate.

Or, he could have made the tough decision and not try to hold onto two players with largely inflated contracts and done a better job in round 2-7 in finding guys to replace one of the two (being Stafford or Suh). We won nothing with Suh, and it looks like we will lose Suh at the end of this season anyways so restructuring to what I would classify as more "player friendly" deals have done nothing to help us.

And in reference to your earlier post about Mayhew inheriting an "expansion team," I don't think that is quite fair in that at the team was historically bad but had some nice pieces already in place, the biggest obviously being the greatest WR since Rice. And even if you want to use the expansion team argument, Mayhew has a WORSE winning percentage in his 5 years than the worst expansion team did.

Tampa Bay from 1977-1981 (5 years after 0-14 season): 31-47 (.397) - Reached playoffs twice (1-2)

Detroit from 2009-2013 (5 years after 0-16 season): 29-51 (.362) - Reached playoffs once (0-1)

It's been a really, really bad stretch and I am honestly surprised that there aren't more fans who aren't happy with this miserable stretch under Mayhew. But I do agree on your last sentence, if Mayhew doesn't reach double digit wins this year he should be gone, along with Caldwell.

Edited by EchO

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I think we had a roster that had very little chance of winning in the first 2-3 years, particularly with the Stafford injuries. We got to the playoffs a year early IMO. I mentioned that us not making it the next year was , IMO, a direct results of him missing on the guys he drafted to fill our skill positions.

I just think judging him solely on winning percentage is silly. Last year was rough, but I think the issue was more coaching and health, which is why I feel like he gets one more year. He not only needs to win this year though, but barring a SB, he needs to keep winning. He is basically on the hot seat for the next 3-5 years if he wins this year and keeps his job(in this hypothetical)

I am not like most fans who love to fire people every time something goes wrong. Its never been my style. I like to let coaches and GMs see their plan through, barring something egregious.

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Titus Young, Jhavid Best, Ryan Broyles. Those were all very risky red-flag draft picks. And all of them were taken at least two rounds before they should have been taken. Sorry, don't mean to pick on Jhavid because he seems like a nice guy, but there is no way in hell I am ever drafting a player that has had two major concussions (and if they had one, I wouldn't draft him higher than the 5th round). That's just stupid.

And does anyone still thing Suh is staying? His sister pretty much hinted at him leaving as soon as he was drafted.

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I think we had a roster that had very little chance of winning in the first 2-3 years, particularly with the Stafford injuries. We got to the playoffs a year early IMO. I mentioned that us not making it the next year was , IMO, a direct results of him missing on the guys he drafted to fill our skill positions.

I just think judging him solely on winning percentage is silly. Last year was rough, but I think the issue was more coaching and health, which is why I feel like he gets one more year. He not only needs to win this year though, but barring a SB, he needs to keep winning. He is basically on the hot seat for the next 3-5 years if he wins this year and keeps his job(in this hypothetical)

I am not like most fans who love to fire people every time something goes wrong. Its never been my style. I like to let coaches and GMs see their plan through, barring something egregious.

Judging an executive on the only thing that matters is silly? I guess we can agree to disagree, I could care less how "talented" the fans or national pundits think a team is, at the end of the day you either win or you lose...you don't get partial points for losing with a talented roster. Last year was rough, but lets remember Mayhew was the one who hired Schwartz, Mayhew was the one who choose to keep him for last season. If Schwartz was such a horrible coach that he single-handedly took a talented team and turned them into a below average team shouldn't Mayhew have been the first one to notice that and take action? I don't agree with the argument that you can place blame on the coach and exempt the general manager especially when Schwartz did nothing outside of the ordinary last season. Secondly, we were largely injury free last season but regardless, great organizations don't let injuries stop them; the Patriots the last few years have been ravaged by injuries, they sustain success because they have depth due to great drafting and scouting.

And I think that a .362 winning percentage over 5 years could be argued as being "egregious." I guess we will see though, the season is fast approaching!

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I think we had a roster that had very little chance of winning in the first 2-3 years, particularly with the Stafford injuries. We got to the playoffs a year early IMO. I mentioned that us not making it the next year was , IMO, a direct results of him missing on the guys he drafted to fill our skill positions.

I just think judging him solely on winning percentage is silly. Last year was rough, but I think the issue was more coaching and health, which is why I feel like he gets one more year. He not only needs to win this year though, but barring a SB, he needs to keep winning. He is basically on the hot seat for the next 3-5 years if he wins this year and keeps his job(in this hypothetical)

I am not like most fans who love to fire people every time something goes wrong. Its never been my style. I like to let coaches and GMs see their plan through, barring something egregious.

You wouldnt judge him on how many games he wins? Mr. Ford? Is that you?

I would have fired him and schwartz after last season. They had more than enough time to build a winning team. But this really is it. If they cant do it now then its team for a change.

if they can get lucky and win ten games mayhew might be able to keep his job.

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You wouldnt judge him on how many games he wins? Mr. Ford? Is that you?

I would have fired him and schwartz after last season. They had more than enough time to build a winning team. But this really is it. If they cant do it now then its team for a change.

if they can get lucky and win ten games mayhew might be able to keep his job.

Unfortunately, even though I think most rationale fans would want Mayhew gone unless he wins double digit games, I really don't think that is going to hold true. I think Caldwell and Mayhew will be retained regardless of their record. I know Ford Jr. isn't his dad, but I also don't think he will fire Caldwell after one year and I don't see how he could fire Mayhew without firing Caldwell. I personally think Mayhew bought himself at least 2 (possibly 3) more years with the Schwartz firing.

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Unfortunately, even though I think most rationale fans would want Mayhew gone unless he wins double digit games, I really don't think that is going to hold true. I think Caldwell and Mayhew will be retained regardless of their record. I know Ford Jr. isn't his dad, but I also don't think he will fire Caldwell after one year and I don't see how he could fire Mayhew without firing Caldwell. I personally think Mayhew bought himself at least 2 (possibly 3) more years with the Schwartz firing.

I dont think it has to be that way. Theyll fire mayhew and bring in a new guy who lets caldwell stick arojnd for one year of "observation" and then fires him. Like the bears did with lovie, and before lovie with dick jauron. It happens all the time.

if a change needs to be made at the top, you dont worry about the fact that the coach is only on the first year of a three year deal.

but youre right, its the lions. So theyll probably do nothing and continue to lose.

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The change in Lions ownership, no matter how subtle, does give me some hope that they will start running their front office more like your typical NFL team. If the Lions have a typical Lions season and don't make any front office changes, I'll know it's the Same Ol' Lions - lets hope that's not going to be the case.

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I think Nastradamus has been spot on in this thread over the weekend. Simply looking at the W/L is evaluating without context.

Where we all agree is that this year is make or break. The talent is there and there is a new coach. The expectations are to win and to win now.

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I think Nastradamus has been spot on in this thread over the weekend. Simply looking at the W/L is evaluating without context.

Where we all agree is that this year is make or break. The talent is there and there is a new coach. The expectations are to win and to win now.

the bad won loss record reflects his failure as a gm.

make or break for mayhew. If he has really accumulated all the talent some say he has, the lions should be legit contenders unless stafford gets hurt.

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the bad won loss record reflects his failure as a gm.

It's subjective, we have to leave it at that. I don't think for a second Mayhew has been a failure. In my opinion he has done a good job and I can see the rationale behind most of his decisions.

Very optimistic this season.

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the bad won loss record reflects his failure as a gm.

no, it doesn't. Almost not at all.

make or break for mayhew. If he has really accumulated all the talent some say he has, the lions should be legit contenders unless stafford gets hurt.

This is 100% true though. Double digit wins and a playoff appearance(ideally a win) or heads must roll.

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