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The Suh Resolution

What will be the Suh Resolution?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. What will be the Suh Resolution?

    • He plays this season and then leaves for Free Agency
      6
    • He will sign a long term extension.
      10
    • He will be traded before or during the NFL Draft
      5


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Anybody ready to change their mind yet on whether suh stays or goes?

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Anybody ready to change their mind yet on whether suh stays or goes?

Nope, still think he goes...every single indicator this offseason has suggested he was leaving and the new developments do nothing but confirm what Suh has been doing this entire offseason. If he wanted to stay he would have had an agent lined up, it's just that simple...once that didn't happen it was all but confirmed. I think at this point EVERYONE would be surprised if Suh stayed, especially the Lions organization. Actions speak much louder than words.

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Nope, still think he goes...every single indicator this offseason has suggested he was leaving and the new developments do nothing but confirm what Suh has been doing this entire offseason. If he wanted to stay he would have had an agent lined up, it's just that simple...once that didn't happen it was all but confirmed. I think at this point EVERYONE would be surprised if Suh stayed, especially the Lions organization. Actions speak much louder than words.

In an ordinary situation I would agree with your analysis EchO. I think there is one wild card that plays into this though... and that's the new coaching staff.

I personally think that Suh is undecided and wants to see what happens with this coaching staff. If he likes 'em and likes the direct they are going, I think he'll be inclined to stay. But if he doesn't have confidence in what they are doing he'll leave.

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I lean towards him staying, but neither resolution would surprise me. We are going to have to pay him Mario Williams money to keep him though, I've conceded that.

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In an ordinary situation I would agree with your analysis EchO. I think there is one wild card that plays into this though... and that's the new coaching staff.

I personally think that Suh is undecided and wants to see what happens with this coaching staff. If he likes 'em and likes the direct they are going, I think he'll be inclined to stay. But if he doesn't have confidence in what they are doing he'll leave.

Of course if he wanted to get to know the coaching staff, their plans, approach and personalities in deeper detail to guide that decision he might have shown up at the off season workouts. So even if that is his decision process, he's not doing a very thorough job at it.

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I see him testing the market and he will stay only the lions make him the highest paid defensive player in the league.

I would be really surprised if he signed before the season. Id be mildly surprised if he signs here and doesnt leave.

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He's a great player but with the cap being what it is, losing him won't matter.

Does anything think he provides value that exceeds his contract or the contract that he would demand? I assume you could re-invest that money to upgrade in other areas and remain equally competitive.

I'm just not all that bothered by he prospect of him leaving, but I admit that I am a September-December lions fan, so I don't keep up with the details and intricacies of roster construction.

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Suh is about what is best for Suh. He seems determined to test free agency.

On the plus side for Lions fans, Suh in a contract year could have a truly monstrous season.

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In an ordinary situation I would agree with your analysis EchO. I think there is one wild card that plays into this though... and that's the new coaching staff.

I personally think that Suh is undecided and wants to see what happens with this coaching staff. If he likes 'em and likes the direct they are going, I think he'll be inclined to stay. But if he doesn't have confidence in what they are doing he'll leave.

This is 100% fair and I agree. If the Lions play exceptionally well and everyone does manage to get on the same page I think there is a better chance that he stays. That being said, I would not be willing to pay him $15M per year which was the number I heard thrown around recently. And that is based primarily on my thinking that no DT is worth that money and the money could be better spent elsewhere (DE or the secondary) are what first come to mind.

The catch-22 of the whole situation is that what would put the coaching staff in the best position to succeed would be for Suh to resign which would give the team more flexibility and less distractions but that would of course result in Suh forking over his ability to leave if he so desired at the end of the season. My major grievance with the whole issue is that even if Suh has a monster year and the Lions play better than expected, I still don't think they have what it takes to be a legitimate Super Bowl threat and then the price of Suh goes up even higher which will either mean we pay a ridiculous amount for a DT or we lose our best defensive player. Just seems like a lose-lose scenario at the moment.

Edit:

I just want to mention that I love your avatar Red, the 'Chimera' mural on the Russel Bazaar is one of my favorite in the city, so much so that I recently made a 3'x2' poster of the mural as part of an homage to Detroit in my T.V. room. I have that mural, old Tiger stadium and the detroit skyline shot from Windsor with the Detroit River in the foreground. Been a fun project.

Edited by EchO

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Poor salary cap management landed the lions here.

Its really this year or bust for mayhew. They could have just franchised suh if they hadnt kicked the financial can down the road for so long to sign other free agents. Now theyre stuck and will likely be forced to let the best dt in the league hit free agency in his prime.

If they dont make the playoffs this year mayhew should be fired.

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I don't mind losing Suh. I don't think DTs are worth what they are paid relative to the overall success of the team.

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Poor salary cap management landed the lions here.

Its really this year or bust for mayhew. They could have just franchised suh if they hadnt kicked the financial can down the road for so long to sign other free agents. Now theyre stuck and will likely be forced to let the best dt in the league hit free agency in his prime.

If they dont make the playoffs this year mayhew should be fired.

Agree 100%, I don't blame any of this scenario on Suh...he is doing what he thinks is best for himself and I find no qualms with that. We are in this unfortunate situation, like you said, because of miss-management plain and simple.

All that being said, I highly doubt Mayhew gets fired either way. Firing Schwartz, IMO, got him at least another 3 years, I don't think they will fire Mayhew and force the new GM to keep Caldwell and I don't think they will fire Caldwell after 1 (or even 2) years. Which is exactly why I wanted to clean house this offseason and let the new GM bring in his own personnel.

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I hope they don't fire Mayhew, he has done a pretty good job.

As is testament to his 29-51 (.362) record as full-time GM (not counting the 0-16 team he helped construct along with Millen who gave him his one and only job as an NFL executive). I guess "pretty good" is a relative term, but I have to imagine he has the worst win-loss record of any executive who still has a job in the NFL.

Edited by EchO

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I think mayhew is fired if they dont make the playoffs. Junior is not his daddy when it comes to patience/stupidity.

How many years has mayhew been gm? 5? In that time how many top ten picks have the lions had? 4? He's had long enough to build an nfl team.

Its time the lions started winning or its time to give someone else a chance.

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I'm just not all that bothered by he prospect of him leaving, but I admit that I am a September-December lions fan

Shelton, thats when the lions are actually playing games...that is the worst time to be a lions fan!

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Shelton, thats when the lions are actually playing games...that is the worst time to be a lions fan!

I know!

I used to be able to just fall back in M football, but, well...

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I think mayhew is fired if they dont make the playoffs. Junior is not his daddy when it comes to patience/stupidity.

How many years has mayhew been gm? 5? In that time how many top ten picks have the lions had? 4? He's had long enough to build an nfl team.

Its time the lions started winning or its time to give someone else a chance.

Mayhew has been GM for 5 1/2 years (he was promoted about half way through the 0-16 season), but he has been a primary decision maker within the Lions organization for nearly 14 years. In fact most of the head executives in charge of scouting and player personnel have been around for a while (8+ years) with all but 2-3 being holdovers from Millen's days.

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THere is only one primary decision maker in an NFL front office fwiw.

Maybe it is my ignorance, but I don't believe this. Yes, there is one head executive (the General Manager) but there are other executives that are there to help support that figurehead and influence their decisions. I don't believe that Martin Mayhew single-handedly scouts every single professional, collegiate, and foreign player...I don't believe that he goes into the draft or through free agency and simple ignores all the other men and women that the organization pays a great deal of money to research. If he does, I think that says a great deal about the ineptitude of the executive.

And even if you want to use your criteria that Mayhew is the main guy now and we should simply forget about or otherwise not acknowledge that he has been a personnel executive over the last 14 miserable years...his record as THE guy is just as miserable: .362 winning percentage. Over the last two years (which were void of any sort of a catastrophic rash of injuries) he has a winning percentage of .343. The main highlights of Mayhew's regime have been making it to a single wild card game and getting embarrassed over a 5 year period which included having the #1 overall pick, #2 overall pick, #13th overall pick, and #5 overall pick. By any and every statistical measure, Mayhew has been awful...unless of course you are simply comparing him to Millen.

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Poor salary cap management landed the lions here.

Its really this year or bust for mayhew. They could have just franchised suh if they hadnt kicked the financial can down the road for so long to sign other free agents. Now theyre stuck and will likely be forced to let the best dt in the league hit free agency in his prime.

If they dont make the playoffs this year mayhew should be fired.

Disagree. The old system screwed the Lions. The Lions should be ok either way here. Lose him, he'll sign elsewhere after next year, and the Lions should get a nice comp pick, perhaps a 3rd rounder the following year. I believe the Lions are moving towards a 3-4 in the future, anyways. Suh could work as a nice 9 technique, though. They'll clear lots of money under the cap if he doesn't resign. They'll have more options available.

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I don't believe that Martin Mayhew single-handedly scouts every single professional, collegiate, and foreign player...

Did you black out and think you where in a basketball or hockey thread? Is there a lot of foreign football player scouting going on that I'm not aware of?

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Agree 100%, I don't blame any of this scenario on Suh...he is doing what he thinks is best for himself and I find no qualms with that. We are in this unfortunate situation, like you said, because of miss-management plain and simple.

All that being said, I highly doubt Mayhew gets fired either way. Firing Schwartz, IMO, got him at least another 3 years, I don't think they will fire Mayhew and force the new GM to keep Caldwell and I don't think they will fire Caldwell after 1 (or even 2) years. Which is exactly why I wanted to clean house this offseason and let the new GM bring in his own personnel.

I must be missing something but what is this mismanagement that you speak of?

They signed one of the best WRs on the free agent market which was a primary need, signed a decent veteran safety to a cheap contract which was another need and re-signed Bell which I'm sure we can all agree was a necessary move. The Pettigrew contract was puzzling but other than that, I can't think of many other Mayhew moves over the past several seasons that have reeked of mismanagement. I have liked just about all of his free agent signings and the drafting has gotten better as well.

What screwed over the Lions cap situation moreso than anything else was the outrageous rookie contracts that were given to top picks prior to the new labor agreement and having no choice but to pay a receiver who happens to be their franchise player top dollar. That's just an example of poor circumstance as opposed to cap mismanagement.

Waiting a year too long to fire Schwartz and staff was the other foul up. Otherwise, I think Mayhew has done an admirable job. Keep in mind the atrocious mess that he inherited so I wouldn't look at his record and make a judgment of his GMing abilities based solely on that.

Edited by NYLion

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Disagree. The old system screwed the Lions. The Lions should be ok either way here. Lose him, he'll sign elsewhere after next year, and the Lions should get a nice comp pick, perhaps a 3rd rounder the following year. I believe the Lions are moving towards a 3-4 in the future, anyways. Suh could work as a nice 9 technique, though. They'll clear lots of money under the cap if he doesn't resign. They'll have more options available.

the old system definitely didnt help. But you have to be able to manage it and the lions didnt do it well.

and why would they not pick up fairley's option? Now theyre going to be down two dt's. They must be going to a 3-4, they'll have no choice.

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