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Deleterious

Everything Monroe

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If a team came to me saying this, I would be extremely comfortable with my position. 3 days isn't long to act and now you just ate up more of your salary cap than you wanted on a player you didn't really want. And now you can't trade him for one year without his consent.

Anytime you go into restricted free agency you have to imagine the other team will match. Unless you are willing to grossly overpay for a player.

But that's not the situation. I think the Pistons would be just as happy with a match.

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On the one hand, hope that houston thinks it can land carmelo and begins to clear out salaries to do it. Lin and parsons might then become available.

On the other hand, hope that they miss on carmelo becausr they might take a flyer on josh smith at pf...

Im not sure monroe would be on their radar to play with howard.

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But that's not the situation. I think the Pistons would be just as happy with a match.

It is the situation as described above. If the Pistons are happy to match, then they don't make threats to the team who signed him to the offer sheet.

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Trade the 8 pick for Parsons. Houston might like the idea of someone on a cheap contract for the next 4 years.

I would be over the moon with that trade. Would Houston have to add some filler to that to fit the cap?

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Is Parsons Parsons without being Houston? I honestly don't know. Is he Parsons in a ****** offensive scheme that Gores is no doubt knee deep in establishing as we speak? I honestly don't know, I know Houston makes some players look better than they are much like Beilien does in Ann Arbor.

And the fact that Houston does it with different coaches shows how effective at establishing a culture Morey and the Owner are. Gores is going to bumble and stumble into some faded name guy he thinks will bring some heat and pub to his team.

Parsons was a pretty nice all-around player at UF, but I do think it is fair to say that he has surpassed or at least met his projected offensive ceiling scoring-wise that was established for him pre-draft. He is about to enter his prime, so there is a chance he could raise that ceiling. As a facilitator I do think he has even more to offer, even if that means matching his current numbers by playing a few less minutes (IMO he may be better off playing 34-35 MIN rather than the 37.6 MIN he played this season, dude played hurt a lot).

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I would be over the moon with that trade. Would Houston have to add some filler to that to fit the cap?

Nope. Draft picks count on the cap instantly when drafted. But when an unsigned pick is traded, his cap number is actually $0.

NBA Salary Cap FAQ

Draft picks (both first and second round) count $0 for salary matching purposes. This is true both before and after the draft, until the player signs a contract. This can make it very difficult to construct a trade that is equitable in both trade value and basketball value. For example, Vancouver selected Steve Francis with the #2 pick in the 1999 draft, and subsequently traded his draft rights to Houston. When the trade was finally engineered, it included three teams (Orlando was also involved), 11 players (including Francis) and two future draft picks.

Once the draft pick signs a contract, his actual salary becomes his trade value.

Note that even though a draft pick's trade value (for salary matching purposes) is $0, a first round pick is included in team salary at 100% of his scale amount once he is selected in the draft, unless he signs with a non-NBA team (see question number 49) or agrees in writing not to sign an NBA contract that season (see question number 14). If an unsigned first round draft pick is traded, then 100% of his scale amount is included in the acquiring team's team salary as soon as the trade is completed. An unsigned second round pick does not count toward team salary.

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I actually would like to pay our debt in the Ben Gordon trade this year if possible. Do you think Charlotte would laugh at us if we asked for the Portland pick they own in return for giving up the 8th pick this year?

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I think it's very very likely someone offers Moose a max deal. 75% of the issues we have with him are moot if he gets moved back to center. I also find it very unlikely many teams would complain about a guy who on the right team, with the right players around him(basically any team built not like Detroit has been), averages 16 and 10 making $15mil. He might be overpaid but it's not by a whole lot, and as noted by Del, he offers a very rare skill set.

I also think that regardless we have to match it and accept that next season is going to be a lost season if we can't move Smith, unless we can hire a GM and coach with some balls that would be willing to move Smith to the bench. I don't care if he is the best player on the team, he's not the kind of player I want being the focus of the team. Again, we need to trade Smith for whatever we can get though. Addition by subtraction.

Edited by DaBishop

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It is the situation as described above. If the Pistons are happy to match, then they don't make threats to the team who signed him to the offer sheet.

I don't understand

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I think it's very very likely someone offers Moose a max deal. 75% of the issues we have with him are moot if he gets moved back to center. I also find it very unlikely many teams would complain about a guy who on the right team, with the right players around him(basically any team built not like Detroit has been), averages 16 and 10 making $15mil. He might be overpaid but it's not by a whole lot, and as noted by Del, he offers a very rare skill set.

I also think that regardless we have to match it and accept that next season is going to be a lost season if we can't move Smith, unless we can hire a GM and coach with some balls that would be willing to move Smith to the bench. I don't care if he is the best player on the team, he's not the kind of player I want being the focus of the team. Again, we need to trade Smith for whatever we can get though. Addition by subtraction.

The max is possible, but I feel its less likely than I previously thought. I'm thinking more like 4/45-55.

Monroe's issues are the same and arguably magnified at C. He is what he is, a post scorer, good rebounder and poor defender.

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I don't understand

Kevin said the Pistons could threaten to match if the opposing team doesn't work out a S&T. My feelings are if you threaten that you don't want to match the offer anyway. So I call your bluff.

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You don't threaten...you say 'give us a reason not to match because we're not going to lose a player like Moose for nothing'

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You don't threaten...you say 'give us a reason not to match because we're not going to lose a player like Moose for nothing'

And I say, match it.

Restricted free agency isn't something I expect to be successful with a lot of times.

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Kevin said the Pistons could threaten to match if the opposing team doesn't work out a S&T. My feelings are if you threaten that you don't want to match the offer anyway. So I call your bluff.

Yah, can't agree I guess. I don't know if threaten is a good word, but you let the team know you will be matching at the end of the 3 days and tell them that you are willing to potentially do a trade if they are so inclined. It certainly doesn't give you some extreme leverage or back the other team against the wall, but its an opportunity.

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And I say, match it.

Restricted free agency isn't something I expect to be successful with a lot of times.

Ok...and then we match it. We're not gonna let him go for nothing

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Ok...and then we match it. We're not gonna let him go for nothing

I agree but not everyone does.

Either way its a win for me. I get a player I wanted or I took you out of competition for other FA's by making you use $5M in cap space.

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If the team does still want him, a trade can still be worked out. Obviously Monroe signed the original deal so it's likely he'd sign off on the trade, and if the team really does want him and thinks Detroit is bluffing, they may still be motivated to offer compensation to get him.

That said, I'm not sure if there's a minimum time that has to go by to trade a recently signed player like I often see on the trade machine.

REgardless I hope we don't let him go and instead trade away Smith for a player like Gerald Green. By the way can I just say that far and away, the worst move Joe made this off-season wasn't signing Smith but it was not even trying to sign Calderon and instead signing Jennings. 45% from 3pt range this year...no, we couldn't have used that on this team last year. What a dink!

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I did some research. It is illegal to sign and trade a player who signs an offer sheet with another team. So what you guys are proposing isn't possible.

NBA Salary Cap FAQ

90. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

There is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under this rule the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract stipulating that the contract is null and void if the trade to the specific team is not completed within 48 hours. To qualify for a sign-and-trade, all of the following must be true:

  • The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.
  • The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008).
  • The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number 44).

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Interesting. Either way, if you put word out that you will match any offer, some team who is interested will likely offer you a little something to do a sign and trade. Nothing huge or fair value, but more like the Al Jefferson deal when he went from Minny to Utah. 2 future protected 1sts or something like that.

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I think if you advertise that you will match any offer sheet, the likely outcome will be that few teams will express intrest in Greg.

and that's absolutely fine with me. You have to be if that's your strategy. That hopefully keeps his deal from becoming a max one and allows you to re-sign him at a reasonable rate.

The way I'm looking at it, the goal is to keep him. That said, it doesn't hurt to see what offers are out there, just in case. It is more than likely that you don't get a good trade offer.

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Nobody is arguing the Pistons shouldn't explore trade options.

All that is being pointed out is that the current restricted free agency system really doesn't encourage sign and trades.

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I think if you advertise that you will match any offer sheet, the likely outcome will be that few teams will express intrest in Greg.

don't need lots of teams...just one to offer him that max deal.

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