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Mr.McGibblets

Evan Reed being investigated for sexual assault

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Here are a couple of interesting articles. Read Dirk Hayhurst first:

A first-hand account of masculine sports culture run amok. | SportsonEarth.com : Dirk Hayhurst Article

Then read some followup observations, and follow the associated links if you want to.

Dirk Hayhurst’s story of sexual abuse and debauchery in the minors has caused some blowback | HardballTalk

I like Dirk Hayhurst. I understand why he just tried to look the other way in 2003, I would have too. I think that he describes the culture accurately enough for us to understand how, in 2014, a borderline pro jock might view a drunken woman in a bar as some sort of disposable object.

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I don't think rape drugs stay in the system very long.

Longer than evan did.

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Yet another example of why people accused sexual assault should never have their names released until a guilty plea/verdict. This guys reputation is now forever tarnished by some money grubbing old hag. Sad.

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Judge rules victim not credible, drops charges.

having practiced criminal law in michigan for 10 years, i can tell you one thing for sure: if you can't get a charge like this bound over, you have no case. they had no physical evidence and the direct testimony of the complaining witness was contradicted by other objective evidence (like video).

this is about as close to exoneration as our system gets.

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Some of the story just never made sense to me.. like it said she told someone at the hotel she was raped after stumbling into an area for employees only.. Why didn't the hotel from there call the cops and lock down the room.. instead they let he get a cab all the way back home before she decided to call the cops..

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No woman deserves to be raped or be taken advantage of and Evan Reed certainly sounds like a creep. That said, I'm not really comfortable with the message that's being sent out too often in cases like this. Drink as much as you want, act any way you want but expect someone else to use good judgment and treat you with respect.

It doesn't or shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you drink so much that you can't keep from falling down and remember what happened, that good things aren't going to come from it. It's like if you leave your car unlocked with the keys in it and are then surprised that the car was stolen. No, you don't deserve to have your car stolen, and in a perfect world, everyone would be model citizens, but life just isn't that way.

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For me it isn't so much that she lied about recognizing the guys at the table as Tigers or lied about feeling so groggy the next mornign she could hardly stand but video caught her walking just fine in high heels. Those are problems with her credibility but to me the big things were '

1. Like the judge said you wake up naked next to a guy who you think raped you and then he supposedly rapes you again in the shower and you dont think to get dressed and get the hell out of there, instead you lay down and try to go back to sleep

2. After she left the room where she supposedly got raped she encountered a casino employye and once outside she walked right past a police car, and in neither case did she tell anyone she'd been sexually assaulted.

Add those two things with the rest of her lies and you can see where her story fell apart.

That said, I think Reed is an idiot and a creep for taking a girl that drunk to his room anyway. But that's not a crime.

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No woman deserves to be raped or be taken advantage of and Evan Reed certainly sounds like a creep. That said, I'm not really comfortable with the message that's being sent out too often in cases like this. Drink as much as you want, act any way you want but expect someone else to use good judgment and treat you with respect.

It doesn't or shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you drink so much that you can't keep from falling down and remember what happened, that good things aren't going to come from it. It's like if you leave your car unlocked with the keys in it and are then surprised that the car was stolen. No, you don't deserve to have your car stolen, and in a perfect world, everyone would be model citizens, but life just isn't that way.

The more important message is to respect women as humans regardless of how much they drink. However, I agree with your message as well and it's too bad it is often immediately dismissed as "blaming the victim". It's not blaming the victim. It's instructing people in how to reduce their chances of becoming a victim.

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I think its funny how some of you are throwing him under the bus and want him off the team when it was not proven he did anything wrong. However the star player on this team and been proven to hit his wife while being out drinking during the season, also was caught drunk driving and threatening people and he gets a pass. I am not saying rape is not a big deal but he was not proven to do anything more wrong then picking up a bar slut and making poor choices, where the other has made choices more then once where he put other people lives in danger. Is this because Reed is not a stud picture and was sent to the minor for not being good? If this was David Price or Verlander would you be saying the same thing about wanting him off the team ASAP? If you want people off "your" team because they have broken the law or made bad decision in the past I hope you don't watch football and there would be about 5 people left in the league.

Kicking players off teams is not practical...there are other ways that teams do deal with particularly harmful behavior that can be effective. Miggy seems to be an example of that, although it took time. And as a practical matter it's probably going to be different for a star player vs. a marginal player like Reed. That doesn't make the standard wrong, that just recognizes the reality of how people and organizations react to bad behavior.

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The more important message is to respect women as humans regardless of how much they drink. However, I agree with your message as well and it's too bad it is often immediately dismissed as "blaming the victim". It's not blaming the victim. It's instructing people in how to reduce their chances of becoming a victim.

This is a point that is missed all too often. It's remarkably naive and stupid to expect women to get drunk in public and not be at substantial increased risk of being taken advantage of....that doesn't excuse the perpetrators for doing it and they should be prosecuted if they sexually abuse women sober or drunk.

But for goodness' sake common sense dictates that women should be careful if they want to avoid being abused, just like men should be careful with their decisions if they want to avoid being accused of abusing a women. It's hardly rocket science, and this woman and Evan Reed appear to have been **at best** pretty careless in their decisions.

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Ok fine, I'll bite.

First, whether or not she was walking past the table of tigers over and over trying to get their attention, and whether or not she knew for sure who they were or who reed was, I don't really care about that aspect of her story. It's easy to understand why someone would be hesitant to admit that they knew or suspected the group included tigers players, because people are going to accuse you of ****. I get why she would say she didn't know they were tigers at the time. As a point of semantics, it is possible that she didn't know, and only suspected.

As to the getting in the shower, that is easily explained by her immediate mental state upon waking up. If she didn't remember the night, her first immediate thought probably isn't that she was raped. And she was probably sleeping in feces. Taking a shower and trying to clear your head seems line a reasonable action to take.

As for the casino worker thing, it's possible at the time that she wasn't thinking she had been raped. To her knowledge, reed had only been looking for some more action in the shower and afterward. Not to mention rape victims frequently are too embarrassed or scared to do anything. Sometimes they just hope it will go away. So the fact that she wasn't running down the hallway screaming rape to everyone she saw means little to me.

As for the stairs thing, I'm guessing she was trying to avoid being seen in her walk of shame bar outfit and was trying to just get home unnoticed.

As for the walking in high heels thing, I've seen plenty of women that were drunk walk just fine in high heels. So I think even if she was disoriented or groggy or just plain feeling like ****, she could probably still manage to not look like a god damn mess while getting into a cab in front of other people.

Her actions sound a lot like how I would expect a person put through her alleged situation to act.

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Ok fine, I'll bite.

First, whether or not she was walking past the table of tigers over and over trying to get their attention, and whether or not she knew for sure who they were or who reed was, I don't really care about that aspect of her story. It's easy to understand why someone would be hesitant to admit that they knew or suspected the group included tigers players, because people are going to accuse you of ****. I get why she would say she didn't know they were tigers at the time. As a point of semantics, it is possible that she didn't know, and only suspected.

As to the getting in the shower, that is easily explained by her immediate mental state upon waking up. If she didn't remember the night, her first immediate thought probably isn't that she was raped. And she was probably sleeping in feces. Taking a shower and trying to clear your head seems line a reasonable action to take.

As for the casino worker thing, it's possible at the time that she wasn't thinking she had been raped. To her knowledge, reed had only been looking for some more action in the shower and afterward. Not to mention rape victims frequently are too embarrassed or scared to do anything. Sometimes they just hope it will go away. So the fact that she wasn't running down the hallway screaming rape to everyone she saw means little to me.

As for the stairs thing, I'm guessing she was trying to avoid being seen in her walk of shame bar outfit and was trying to just get home unnoticed.

As for the walking in high heels thing, I've seen plenty of women that were drunk walk just fine in high heels. So I think even if she was disoriented or groggy or just plain feeling like ****, she could probably still manage to not look like a god damn mess while getting into a cab in front of other people.

Her actions sound a lot like how I would expect a person put through her alleged situation to act.

The problem is, her actions were different than what she told police.

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Ok fine, I'll bite.

First, whether or not she was walking past the table of tigers over and over trying to get their attention, and whether or not she knew for sure who they were or who reed was, I don't really care about that aspect of her story. It's easy to understand why someone would be hesitant to admit that they knew or suspected the group included tigers players, because people are going to accuse you of ****. I get why she would say she didn't know they were tigers at the time. As a point of semantics, it is possible that she didn't know, and only suspected.

As to the getting in the shower, that is easily explained by her immediate mental state upon waking up. If she didn't remember the night, her first immediate thought probably isn't that she was raped. And she was probably sleeping in feces. Taking a shower and trying to clear your head seems line a reasonable action to take.

As for the casino worker thing, it's possible at the time that she wasn't thinking she had been raped. To her knowledge, reed had only been looking for some more action in the shower and afterward. Not to mention rape victims frequently are too embarrassed or scared to do anything. Sometimes they just hope it will go away. So the fact that she wasn't running down the hallway screaming rape to everyone she saw means little to me.

As for the stairs thing, I'm guessing she was trying to avoid being seen in her walk of shame bar outfit and was trying to just get home unnoticed.

As for the walking in high heels thing, I've seen plenty of women that were drunk walk just fine in high heels. So I think even if she was disoriented or groggy or just plain feeling like ****, she could probably still manage to not look like a god damn mess while getting into a cab in front of other people.

Her actions sound a lot like how I would expect a person put through her alleged situation to act.

That's a lot of guessing and supposing. She lied several times in court and the judge called her on it. He also pointed out the parts of her story that didnt make sense. It sounds like you've already got your mind made up what the truth is and no matter what came out in court Evan Reed should be convicted because he's a scumbag.

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That's a lot of guessing and supposing. She lied several times in court and the judge called her on it. He also pointed out the parts of her story that didnt make sense. It sounds like you've already got your mind made up what the truth is and no matter what came out in court Evan Reed should be convicted because he's a scumbag.

But the Detroit police requested charges against Reed so obviously that means he's guilty. Not sure why they had this hearing since the prosecutors would never pursue charges if he didn't do it.

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But the Detroit police requested charges against Reed so obviously that means he's guilty. Not sure why they had this hearing since the prosecutors would never pursue charges if he didn't do it.

I get the sarcasm here. One thing Shelton glossed over is after he supposedly raped her in the shower, she didn't leave out of there, but she decided to go to bed. It just doesnt add up. You're talking about whether there is evidence to take the case to trial and from what I saw there wasn't enough evidence to show Reed committed the crime of rape. And Shelton can guess all he wants as to why the woman lied about kinowing the people in the bar were Tigers. The fact is, she lied in court. She said she didnt know they were Tigers and when the lawyer pointed out that she sent a text to her friend saying she was sitting with Tigers she changed her story and said she thought the others were Tigers but didnt think Evan Reed was. When you lie in court that's what you get.

That doesnt mean I think Evan Reed is a great guy.

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I get the sarcasm here. One thing Shelton glossed over is after he supposedly raped her in the shower, she didn't leave out of there, but she decided to go to bed. It just doesnt add up. You're talking about whether there is evidence to take the case to trial and from what I saw there wasn't enough evidence to show Reed committed the crime of rape. And Shelton can guess all he wants as to why the woman lied about kinowing the people in the bar were Tigers. The fact is, she lied in court. She said she didnt know they were Tigers and when the lawyer pointed out that she sent a text to her friend saying she was sitting with Tigers she changed her story and said she thought the others were Tigers but didnt think Evan Reed was. When you lie in court that's what you get.

That doesnt mean I think Evan Reed is a great guy.

She also said when Reed had sex with her in the shower she told him to stop and he did.

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That's a lot of guessing and supposing. She lied several times in court and the judge called her on it. He also pointed out the parts of her story that didnt make sense. It sounds like you've already got your mind made up what the truth is and no matter what came out in court Evan Reed should be convicted because he's a scumbag.

I'm just responding to posts that "it doesn't make sense for her to do these things."

I did have my mind made up, yes. I still do. I think it's a shame that a single judge can throw a case out based on his view of a witness's credibility. Credibility of a witness is for a jury to decide, IMO.

I saw you post something else about her going back to bed to lay down. As she testified in court, when she told him to stop after he assaulted her in the morning he did. She felt like garbage. He had stopped. Maybe she thought the sexual advances were over with and she could rest for a minute.

She probably didn't think what happened in that morning was "rape" when she lied down.

There are plenty of plausible reasons for her to act three way she did. That's all I'm talking about now.

Everyone here has their mind made up. Just because the charges were dismissed doesn't mean he isn't a rapist.

You've got your opinion. I've got mine. I think he's a rapist. I want him gone.

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I'm just responding to posts that "it doesn't make sense for her to do these things."

I did have my mind made up, yes. I still do. I think it's a shame that a single judge can throw a case out based on his view of a witness's credibility. Credibility of a witness is for a jury to decide, IMO.

I saw you post something else about her going back to bed to lay down. As she testified in court, when she told him to stop after he assaulted her in the morning he did. She felt like garbage. He had stopped. Maybe she thought the sexual advances were over with and she could rest for a minute.

She probably didn't think what happened in that morning was "rape" when she lied down.

There are plenty of plausible reasons for her to act three way she did. That's all I'm talking about now.

Everyone here has their mind made up. Just because the charges were dismissed doesn't mean he isn't a rapist.

You've got your opinion. I've got mine. I think he's a rapist. I want him gone.

The problem is, her story doesn't match what was on video and is inconsistent.

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Brilliant plan to try to grab money from a player who had earned practically none in his baseball career up until that point in time.

Do we have to assume that this lady's judgement is perfect? She easily could have thought, "Hey, a ballplayer...he must be rich."

Still, it's pretty easy to put two and two together if you see Evan Reed sitting with a bunch of other Tigers you know. He has an athlete's build, was probably dressed in very nice clothes, and he was sitting with other Tigers.

I have no idea what happened in this case...the most damning evidence is probably the state of the woman as she left the bar with Reed. But that only proves she couldn't consent--not that they actually had sex. Maybe both of them just went back to the hotel and passed out, and she made up the whole story afterward because she was embarrassed she **** the bed or something.

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Do we have to assume that this lady's judgement is perfect? She easily could have thought, "Hey, a ballplayer...he must be rich."

Still, it's pretty easy to put two and two together if you see Evan Reed sitting with a bunch of other Tigers you know. He has an athlete's build, was probably dressed in very nice clothes, and he was sitting with other Tigers.

I have no idea what happened in this case...the most damning evidence is probably the state of the woman as she left the bar with Reed. But that only proves she couldn't consent--not that they actually had sex. Maybe both of them just went back to the hotel and passed out, and she made up the whole story afterward because she was embarrassed she **** the bed or something.

I don't think either denied having sex.

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I'm just responding to posts that "it doesn't make sense for her to do these things."

I did have my mind made up, yes. I still do. I think it's a shame that a single judge can throw a case out based on his view of a witness's credibility. Credibility of a witness is for a jury to decide, IMO.

I saw you post something else about her going back to bed to lay down. As she testified in court, when she told him to stop after he assaulted her in the morning he did. She felt like garbage. He had stopped. Maybe she thought the sexual advances were over with and she could rest for a minute.

She probably didn't think what happened in that morning was "rape" when she lied down.

There are plenty of plausible reasons for her to act three way she did. That's all I'm talking about now.

Everyone here has their mind made up. Just because the charges were dismissed doesn't mean he isn't a rapist.

You've got your opinion. I've got mine. I think he's a rapist. I want him gone.

Agree to disagree. I didn't make up my min one way or the other until after I heard the evidence

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I wish Reed was a better ballplayer, that way Shelton would have to watch him pitch meaningful innings for the Tigers over the next few seasons. But he's not and he's probably gone this winter. I guess I feel that Reed could benefit from some steroids, maybe it helps him as a player. He's already been character assassin-ed to death, so there's no real downside there.

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I'm with Shelton - the fact that the charges were dismissed doesn't mean that he isn't a rapist. There was a journalist, I forget which one, who always referred to O. J. Simpson as "acquitted murderer O. J. Simpson". I don't want to restate the Reed video evidence in detail but she was in no condition to agree to anything.

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