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Deleterious

2014 NBA Draft

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Claiming a series is over and emitting a Fruedian slip are two different things. Sure, it was a bonehead thing to say on camera but it wasn't like T-Mac was taunting--not really that kind of personality.

But hey, if you think it is OK to compare Wiggins to T-Mac because you think T-Mac is a lesser player than the stats indicate, and beca use the Pistons beat his crappy team lead in 2003--you certainly have every right to. BTW, Mike Miller, Gordon Giricek and Pat Garrity--who have zero AS appearances between them--were the 2nd, 3rd and 4th leading scorers on that team. McGrady lead the team in total rebounds, a 33-year old/300 lb Shawn Kemp was second. McGrady also lead the team in assists and blocks, 2nd in steals. That was a bad basketball team that depended on TMac to do everything. LBJ's Cavs teams were awesome compared to that one.

mickeyb105 - Please tell us the truth. Are you TMac?

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I think we should listen to whoever thought MCW was the pick last year. I still like KCP to become and Afflalo-type player in a shorter time frame, but MCW was clearly the pick at that spot in hindsight. What I wouldn't give to have him instead of BJ right now. Anyway, I was against MCW more than any other player, so I'm clearly not the one to pick this year's player. Makes sense since I admittedly do not like or watch college ball, which means I have to believe what I read on NBADraftnet.

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mickeyb105 - Please tell us the truth. Are you TMac?

I'll be working on my arm slot for the next few days, no time to discuss the second round of the playoffs.

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Lets discuss T-Mac and his performances in the second round of the playoffs.

OK, talk over! Thanks for participating everyone.

Yeah, and Barkley sucks because he never got a ring. Ewing too, and Mullin, and Richmond. And let's throw Dave Bing, David Thompson and George Gervin in there too for old time's sake.

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TMac and his cousin Vince are great players.....until the heat is on. And then they curl up and cry. Through three quarters they might be two of the best basketball players in the history of the NBA.

Mcgrady was incredible in the 4th, this being the prime example. His issue was never being clutch, it was health. One of the best and most versatile scorers I've ever seen.

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Yeah, and Barkley sucks because he never got a ring. Ewing too, and Mullin, and Richmond. And let's throw Dave Bing, David Thompson and George Gervin in there too for old time's sake.

I don't recall mentioning a ring.

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I believe his point was that team success in the postseason does not solely define a player.

Nobody said it did.

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Mcgrady was incredible in the 4th, this being the prime example. His issue was never being clutch, it was health. One of the best and most versatile scorers I've ever seen.

What else ya got other than one game?

The time his team had a 3-1 lead and lost? Twice?

The time his team had a 2-0 lead and lost? Twice?

I can't believe someone would bring up Barkley Ewing, etc in comparison. Ummm...those guys made it to the Finals. McGrady never made it to the SECOND ROUND!

If it's one thing you can count on McGrady and Vince, it's that they will ALWAYS find someone to pass to when the game is on the line. Always.

If I needed to win a regular season game in the middle of the season against Minnesota or Sacramento, McGrady is at the top of my list. If I need to win a playoff game, he's the last player I would want. I might even take Grant Hill over him. Nyah, probably not.

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What else ya got other than one game?

The time his team had a 3-1 lead and lost? Twice?

The time his team had a 2-0 lead and lost? Twice?

I can't believe someone would bring up Barkley Ewing, etc in comparison. Ummm...those guys made it to the Finals. McGrady never made it to the SECOND ROUND!

If it's one thing you can count on McGrady and Vince, it's that they will ALWAYS find someone to pass to when the game is on the line. Always.

If I needed to win a regular season game in the middle of the season against Minnesota or Sacramento, McGrady is at the top of my list. If I need to win a playoff game, he's the last player I would want. I might even take Grant Hill over him. Nyah, probably not.

Do I have more than one game? The man averaged 30+ in the postseason in 4 straight appearances, 25 or more in 6 straight. I have a hard time buying that he was the culprit in his teams losing. I don't think you can produce those kind of numbers if you are scared of the moment.

Like mickey pointed out above, some of those teams he made it to the playoffs with were just plain awful. Much like Melo he never had a team that was built to go any farther than it did.

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Do I have more than one game? The man averaged 30+ in the postseason in 4 straight appearances, 25 or more in 6 straight. I have a hard time buying that he was the culprit in his teams losing. I don't think you can produce those kind of numbers if you are scared of the moment.

Like mickey pointed out above, some of those teams he made it to the playoffs with were just plain awful. Much like Melo he never had a team that was built to go any farther than it did.

And to add to this, aside from his rookie year and his last two years in the league when he didn't play at all, his PER was never below 21.4 in any playoff series, and really only 1 season was it there. Every other year it was 25 and above with most being 27 and above, which is phenomenal. Obviously PER is a flawed stat, no denying that, but you don't average over 25 PER by accident, when you play the type of minutes he played he obviously dominated.

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Do I have more than one game? The man averaged 30+ in the postseason in 4 straight appearances, 25 or more in 6 straight. I have a hard time buying that he was the culprit in his teams losing. I don't think you can produce those kind of numbers if you are scared of the moment.

Like mickey pointed out above, some of those teams he made it to the playoffs with were just plain awful. Much like Melo he never had a team that was built to go any farther than it did.

Youre damn right I have more than one game. I have his entire playoff career!

and maybe I should have phrased my question differently....do you have more than one game in the second round of the playoffs? No? Really?

Nobody is saying he's not talented. That's the problem. If you're that talented, how do you never make it past the first round of the playoffs?

You can blame your team all you want, and that assuredly played a role, but lots of other great players have had ****** teams and made it to the FINALS, much less past the first damn round. Ask Allen Iverson.

When the going got tough, McGrady passed. Every time.

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Youre damn right I have more than one game. I have his entire playoff career!

and maybe I should have phrased my question differently....do you have more than one game in the second round of the playoffs? No? Really?

Nobody is saying he's not talented. That's the problem. If you're that talented, how do you never make it past the first round of the playoffs?

You can blame your team all you want, and that assuredly played a role, but lots of other great players have had ****** teams and made it to the FINALS, much less past the first damn round. Ask Allen Iverson.

When the going got tough, McGrady passed. Every time.

Lol, most playoff games dont' come down to some game winning shot. VInce's was the second game winning, last second 3 in the playoffs in like 10 years or something. The man dominated the postseason, the evidence is right there. His teams didn't.

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If I just looked at boxscores I would think mcgrady was a hall of famer too. But I remember him playing and failing whenever his team needed him most.

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Mcgrady will unquestionably be a HOFer, but part of that is how the basketball HOF is structured so I won't get into that one too much.

Lets just say I'm glad we use more than the subjective memories of one fan to judge a player's legacy.

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Mcgrady will unquestionably be a HOFer, but part of that is how the basketball HOF is structured so I won't get into that one too much.

Lets just say I'm glad we use more than the subjective memories of one fan to judge a player's legacy.

I think you're take is pretty accurate. Some serious TMac hating going on in here.

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Mcgrady will unquestionably be a HOFer, but part of that is how the basketball HOF is structured so I won't get into that one too much.

Lets just say I'm glad we use more than the subjective memories of one fan to judge a player's legacy.

youre point would be better if it was only one fan.

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youre point would be better if it was only one fan.

Your point would be better if I hadn't heard this about every single AS to HOF caliber player in the history of the game. Dirk is a choker! Oh shoot, he just won a title. Lebron is a choker, oh shoot, he just won two titles. Jordan can't beat the good teams! 6 rings later.......

Mcgrady just never got the chance to finish his legacy. Plus everyone needs help. Jordan and Kobe have 11 rings combined, but Kobe was missing the playoffs when he had a team like TMac's(which was not on the same level as Iverson's Philly teams, sadly). Jordan never had a winning record without Pippen. Not even getting into the fact that there is a reason only like 5 teams win titles in the NBA and its not because they have the most "clutch" players.

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Your point would be better if I hadn't heard this about every single AS to HOF caliber player in the history of the game. Dirk is a choker! Oh shoot, he just won a title. Lebron is a choker, oh shoot, he just won two titles. Jordan can't beat the good teams! 6 rings later.......

Mcgrady just never got the chance to finish his legacy. Plus everyone needs help. Jordan and Kobe have 11 rings combined, but Kobe was missing the playoffs when he had a team like TMac's(which was not on the same level as Iverson's Philly teams, sadly). Jordan never had a winning record without Pippen. Not even getting into the fact that there is a reason only like 5 teams win titles in the NBA and its not because they have the most "clutch" players.

dirk and kobe and lebron did it. Lebron learned to be the man, mcgrady never did. Not sure you have much of a point there.

his stats will make him an hof (and because everyone gets jnto the bball hof), dont worry. But he'll never be considered one of the best by people who watched him fail when it mattered time after time after time after time....

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...But he'll never be considered one of the best by people who watched him fail when it mattered time after time after time after time....

I don't think you find any people out there like that because that never really happened.

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I don't think you find any people out there like that because that never really happened.

right. He certainly never failed in the second round of the playoffs, thats for sure.

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If they would have stayed together the Raptors would be flying one or more Championship banners, but TMac joined Hill--but Hill's ankle didn't cooperate. When the best Orlando could do is pair him with Mike Miller due to Hill's contract it was a franchise killer. His prime was all but wasted.

He was traded to Houston when he was 25. You are cherry picking some stats but he was Kobe/Lebron level player for one year, 02-03. That's not who he was for the rest of his career he was very much a Paul George level talent.

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