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Deleterious

2014 NBA Draft

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Not looking at hindsight, who goes ahead of Randle in last years draft? I don't think there's any question that any of the top 7 this year would have gone #1 last year.

Of course these guys can all bust. Embiid could be the next Oden, Smart could be Stuckey etc. I just like the talent and character of this group a lot, a very high chance of success for the top 7 this season. I think the drop off is pretty steep after that though.

The problem is that this draft was hyped up as the best draft of the last 20 years, multiple generational talents etc. so it's a bit of a let down if those were your expectations. I do think it will be one of the best drafts in a long time as far as all star quality is concerned. No generationals although I think Embiid has a ridiculous amount of upside but a good amount of very good players.

I'lll give you Wiggins, Parker and more arguably Randle are the three best and healthiest players in the draft over the past two years. As prospects, Noel and Embiid enter the conversation with Oladipo on the fringe.

But a hurt Noel vs a hurt Embiid? Probably a push. A healthy Noel vs a healthy Embiid? Well, that didn't happen and it's not like either is the best player to enter the NBA draft with injury questions.

Here's one for you--Dieng has a shot to be a better big than either Noel or Embiid. His game isn't glamorous and he isn't the same kind of athlete, but the kid put up an 11.9/10.7/2.0 slash line in 31 MPG the last month of the season when Pek was out of the lineup. The month before he had a 15/15 game, an 11/17 game, a 22/21 game and a 12/5/11 game when he was allowed to play over 30 MIN

Smart, IMO, wasn't a better prospect than Oladipo last season and if you apply hindsight--which it is fine if we do not--Smart will be very, very hard pressed to best MCW's performance this past season. His ceiling was lower than Giannis' last year as it still is, IMO.

Exum is a complete unknown but I would have taken either VO or MCW over him no problem. Applying hindsight, Give me Giannis as well.

Gordon is a real wild card and not that different than Bennett in terms of being a boom or bust guy--not that Bennett can be labeled a bust yet by anyone but the most cynical critics (and there are certainly a lot of those out there). He's a tweener forward who doesn't even make half of his FTs, doesn't score at a particularly high level, doesn't block a lot of shots and doesn't dominate the glass. He's got Griffin's athleticism but not the entire set of tools. A guy like him should never be the top pick in the NBA draft, just like Bennett shouldn't have been last year. How much of a difference is there between Gordon and Tony Mitchell, really?

I just can't get excited over either of these drafts as a whole, but maybe combined it becomes a pretty complete draft. Then we'd really have something to talk about.

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Wasn't GRIII in the lottery not so long ago too? Being an amazing athlete with a great pedigree isn't everything when you act like you don't give a shite and are happy playing second fiddle.

We basically landed Drummond for those reasons.

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We basically landed Drummond for those reasons.

Very true. But I think a 7 footer who is very athletic has more upside than a 6'6 guy who is athletic. Just about every team has a super athletic SF, very few teams have a super athletic center.

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I'lll give you Wiggins, Parker and more arguably Randle are the three best and healthiest players in the draft over the past two years. As prospects, Noel and Embiid enter the conversation with Oladipo on the fringe.

But a hurt Noel vs a hurt Embiid? Probably a push. A healthy Noel vs a healthy Embiid? Well, that didn't happen and it's not like either is the best player to enter the NBA draft with injury questions.

Here's one for you--Dieng has a shot to be a better big than either Noel or Embiid. His game isn't glamorous and he isn't the same kind of athlete, but the kid put up an 11.9/10.7/2.0 slash line in 31 MPG the last month of the season when Pek was out of the lineup. The month before he had a 15/15 game, an 11/17 game, a 22/21 game and a 12/5/11 game when he was allowed to play over 30 MIN

Smart, IMO, wasn't a better prospect than Oladipo last season and if you apply hindsight--which it is fine if we do not--Smart will be very, very hard pressed to best MCW's performance this past season. His ceiling was lower than Giannis' last year as it still is, IMO.

Exum is a complete unknown but I would have taken either VO or MCW over him no problem. Applying hindsight, Give me Giannis as well.

Gordon is a real wild card and not that different than Bennett in terms of being a boom or bust guy--not that Bennett can be labeled a bust yet by anyone but the most cynical critics (and there are certainly a lot of those out there). He's a tweener forward who doesn't even make half of his FTs, doesn't score at a particularly high level, doesn't block a lot of shots and doesn't dominate the glass. He's got Griffin's athleticism but not the entire set of tools. A guy like him should never be the top pick in the NBA draft, just like Bennett shouldn't have been last year. How much of a difference is there between Gordon and Tony Mitchell, really?

I just can't get excited over either of these drafts as a whole, but maybe combined it becomes a pretty complete draft. Then we'd really have something to talk about.

Exum was pretty unanimously seen as a better prospect than guys like Oladipo in the scouting communtiy.

I have high hopes for Mitchell, but he's not Aaron GOrdon.

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We basically landed Drummond for those reasons.

Drummond produced though. He didn't get the ball a lot, but he rebounded, had a high FG% and a few metrics had him as the best post defender in college basketball that year, ahead of Davis.

GRIII does have a very impressive 2 point FG%, I will say that.

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Exum was pretty unanimously seen as a better prospect than guys like Oladipo in the scouting communtiy.

I have high hopes for Mitchell, but he's not Aaron GOrdon.

We'll see what Exum can do soon enough, but it is probably correct to say he is a better "prospect" than Oladipo due to the NBA having more data on Oladipo and Exum being younger. That said, I'm pretty sure Victor is the better "player" at this point and that may remain so for a few years.

Mitchell looked like every bit the prospect Gordon did as a frosh, but posted superior numbers likely as a product of weaker competition. Gordon's 45% FT shooting reads like a misprint. At the NBA combine these two had nearly identical measurables, ranging from height w/o shoes to vertical leap. Mitchell had a 15 lb advantage but body fat difference was negligible (Gordon 5.1, Mitchell 5.6).

These two are not very far apart as players or in talent. One of the main differences between the two is their college experience. Mitchell sat out a year, played a year, went through a bad coaching change, and then struggled as "the man" as a sophomore. Gordon was surrounded with plenty of talent, suffered no gaps in play, and never had to be his team's go-to player.

Perhaps all of this--never losing luster as a top-flight prep like Mitchell did--is such an advantage for Gordon that he will thrive as a pro and his team will do whatever they can to ensure his success. Mitchell, on the other hand, is going through his second coaching change as a pro and will be playing for his sixth coach in three seasons (counting only college, NBADL and NBA). He may even need a dominant performance in Summer League just to make the team, as doing so may give SVG even more of an incentive to move Smith.

I know I'll be watching when we paly Orlando during summer league this year to see these two face off.

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Really? Tony Mitchell is basically the same player as Alex Gordon? This doesn't sound correct to me.

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Really? Tony Mitchell is basically the same player as Alex Gordon? This doesn't sound correct to me.

Also, I would say Aaron Gordon has very low bust potential. He'll be better offensively than some people think, and if he is not, he already has a pretty easily identifiable skill set in the NBA. His shot isn't as broken as his small sample size stats suggest and he will dunk a lot of basketballs in his career.

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Also, I would say Aaron Gordon has very low bust potential. He'll be better offensively than some people think, and if he is not, he already has a pretty easily identifiable skill set in the NBA. His shot isn't as broken as his small sample size stats suggest and he will dunk a lot of basketballs in his career.

Tony Mitchell is like the guy from the wrestling team who tries to play basketball, he is not in Gordon's class as a prospect or player.

Joel Embiid is a far better prospect then Noel, Noel has no offensive game to speak of, Embiid is far more polished and his injuries I do not believe are chronic.

Randle actually is hurt right now as well to the poster who said he was one of the healthy ones, he has a foot issue.

I think Oladipo is probably the only pick from last year that may have cracked the top seven this year, and that is maybe ahead of Smart/Randle, no higher then 6.

Deng has little chance of being anywhere near Embiid/Noel, especially Embiid who is an offensively gifted Howard with Howards athletism and more desire. Embiid was the standout player in this draft, Cleveland will regret not taking him.

Edited by DrWho17

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Tony Mitchell is like the guy from the wrestling team who tries to play basketball, he is not in Gordon's class as a prospect or player.

Joel Embiid is a far better prospect then Noel, Noel has no offensive game to speak of, Embiid is far more polished and his injuries I do not believe are chronic.

Randle actually is hurt right now as well to the poster who said he was one of the healthy ones, he has a foot issue.

I think Oladipo is probably the only pick from last year that may have cracked the top seven this year, and that is maybe ahead of Smart/Randle, no higher then 6.

Deng has little chance of being anywhere near Embiid/Noel, especially Embiid who is an offensively gifted Howard with Howards athletism and more desire. Embiid was the standout player in this draft, Cleveland will regret not taking him.

Wrestling team, really? Since when can wrestlers windmill dunk, block three shots per game at the D1 level and extend out past 20' with little effort? We could have used a few of those guys on my high school team, no doubt. Gordon, on the other hand, shoots free throws like a few of the wrestlers I knew.

Embiid is a great prospect, but so is Noel. What do you define as a chronic injury? Does it have to be Oden? Bill Walton? Does Okafor work? Does Shaq's big toe qualify him? Brad Daugherty was one of the most polished centers coming out of college I've ever seen, but his back betrayed him. Embiid is probably polished for this time period, which I guess makes him a bigger Theo Ratliff with more upside. He's got potential, but it isn't like we've never seen a 7' big do the things he's done.

Embiid--who does not have Howard's athletic ability at the same age, and questioning Howard's desire now is one thing but he was VERY driven as a teen--may or may not have been the best talent in the draft, but the best talent isn't always the best player. Deng is a better player than either Embiid or Noel right now because he can actually be inserted into a lineup and get you points, boards and blocks. He actually earned his pay last year and had 20 point games, 5 block games and 20 rebound games. Deng's ceiling is certainly lower than Embiid or Noel, but then again there were five teams who drafted other centers in 2013 who perhaps wish that they could have another crack at Deng. He's a grinder and his game isn't pretty, but he's plenty effective and he fills the stat sheet.

These new draftees are shiny new toys and it is fun to project, but like most of the rest of the players from the past several drafts they are woefully underprepared for the 82-game grind of the National Basketball Association.

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I think sometimes we look at measurables without ever asking ourselves the question, is he a good basketball player? Aaron Gordon is a great athlete and is good at basketball. Gordon has a feel for the game that will allow him to be a very good basketball player and will score double digits throughout his NBA career. Mitchell was discouraged to play his game by Cheeks (all the rooks struggled) so we don't know how he will respond, I have doubts.

Take Jordan Adams, he is a terrible athlete (though his 6-10 wingspan helps) but yet was a better finisher at the rim than Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins is always shooting awkward shots in traffic whereas Adams has a knack for positioning himself for easy shots in traffic. Wiggins can't use his body to get into position to use his freak athletic ability. Players that have a great basketball feel like Scola and Adams make up for their below the rim athletic ability by never *not* knowing what they want to do with each move they make.

Don't kill me for the comparison, because Adams' lack of athletic ability will prevent him from reaching this comparison, by far, but Adams does a lot of what James Harden does as far as attacking, and he will be able to do some of the things Harden can do throughout his career. I think he ends up a much better scorer than Gary Harris who was taking 3 spots ahead of him.

Edited by ScrubBeaterUpper

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I think sometimes we look at measurables without ever asking ourselves the question, is he a good basketball player? Aaron Gordon is a great athlete and is good at basketball. Gordon has a feel for the game that will allow him to be a very good basketball player and will score double digits throughout his NBA career. Mitchell was discouraged to play his game by Cheeks (all the rooks struggled) so we don't know how he will respond, I have doubts.

Take Jordan Adams, he is a terrible athlete (though his 6-10 wingspan helps) but yet was a better finisher at the rim than Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins is always shooting awkward shots in traffic whereas Adams has a knack for positioning himself for easy shots in traffic. Wiggins can't use his body to get into position to use his freak athletic ability. Players that have a great basketball feel like Scola and Adams make up for their below the rim athletic ability by never *not* knowing what they want to do with each move they make.

Don't kill me for the comparison, because Adams' lack of athletic ability will prevent him from reaching this comparison, by far, but Adams does a lot of what James Harden does as far as attacking, and he will be able to do some of the things Harden can do throughout his career. I think he ends up a much better scorer than Gary Harris who was taking 3 spots ahead of him.

Well put, though I don't think Mitchell is quite as raw as you seem to suggest. I do think Gordon is much better at this point though. At the same time, Gordon will likely never be a good shooter.

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I think sometimes we look at measurables without ever asking ourselves the question, is he a good basketball player? Aaron Gordon is a great athlete and is good at basketball. Gordon has a feel for the game that will allow him to be a very good basketball player and will score double digits throughout his NBA career. Mitchell was discouraged to play his game by Cheeks (all the rooks struggled) so we don't know how he will respond, I have doubts.

Take Jordan Adams, he is a terrible athlete (though his 6-10 wingspan helps) but yet was a better finisher at the rim than Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins is always shooting awkward shots in traffic whereas Adams has a knack for positioning himself for easy shots in traffic. Wiggins can't use his body to get into position to use his freak athletic ability. Players that have a great basketball feel like Scola and Adams make up for their below the rim athletic ability by never *not* knowing what they want to do with each move they make.

Don't kill me for the comparison, because Adams' lack of athletic ability will prevent him from reaching this comparison, by far, but Adams does a lot of what James Harden does as far as attacking, and he will be able to do some of the things Harden can do throughout his career. I think he ends up a much better scorer than Gary Harris who was taking 3 spots ahead of him.

I agree on all counts. I'm just not super high on Gordon because there is just way too much projection and not enough to convince me he is just another great athlete who will win a slam dunk title and then have an average career.

Guys like Adams will always have to work harder for everything they get because teams will give a guy like Wiggins every chance to succeed because of his ceiling.

Some genius called Smart "Gary Payton who can kick your a**" the other day on 2+2 Forums, I just don't get these superlative comparisons.

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I just don't want to see Smart's flopping and whining in the NBA. But yeah, other than that he can totally kick some ***

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This really got glossed over, but this FT-centric stat really jumps off the page for a pg (or anyone, really)

I really like that aspect of his game, but also the fact that he can actually hit his free throws. That alone would be a huge change for this team.

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