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RatkoVarda

Cheeks fired!

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Didn't Hollins become available during the last coaching search?

I think he was fired by Memphis the same day the Pistons hired Cheeks.

Like it makes a damn bit of difference since Hollins is essentially a complete clone of Cheeks (see above). As well as 50 other nondescipt journeyman former gritty-gutty-guard NBA coaches/assistant coaches. Why not haul Lenny Wilkens out of retirement?

Edited by TJ

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So the Pistons are apparently hot to hire Lionel Hollins, a button-down former non-scoring point guard, as coach, to replace Mo Cheeks, who replaced Lawrence Frank, a button-down former non-scoring point guard, as coach, who replaced John Kuester, a button-down former non-scoring point guard, as coach, who replaced Michael Curry, a button-down former non-scoring point guard, as coach, who replaced Flip Saunders, a button-down former non-scoring wing guard, as coach, who replaced Larry Brown, a button-down former non-scoring point guard, as coach, who replaced Rick Carlisle, a button-down former non-scoring wing guard, as coach, who replaced George Irvine, a button-down former non-scoring big gumpy forward, as coach, who replaced Alvin Gentry, a button-down former non-scoring point guard, as coach, who replaced Doug Collins, a button-down former scoring wing guard, as coach, who replaced Don Chaney, a button-down former non-scoring point guard, as coach, who replaced Ron Rothstein, a button-down former non-scoring point guard, as coach, who replaced Chuck Daly.

I seem to be spotting a pattern here. A certain lack of imagination.

I don't know how you typed after that, I quit reading after the first two lines.

Anyway, I don't think you have much of a point. A lot of good coaches are former guards. And Larry Brown won a championship.

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Phil Jackson isn't getting hired?

The rumor is that Phil Jackson will be the next coach and that there is a verbal agreement for Lebron James to sign with the Pistons in the summer. Okay...I made that up.

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I think he was fired by Memphis the same day the Pistons hired Cheeks.

Like it makes a damn bit of difference since Hollins is essentially a complete clone of Cheeks (see above). As well as 50 other nondescipt journeyman former gritty-gutty-guard NBA coaches/assistant coaches. Why not haul Lenny Wilkens out of retirement?

I should have kept reading. Well maybe not. Cheeks and Hollins are vastly different coaches.

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We can agree to disagree on this one.

Let me assess 21-24 year-old athletes that have been through years and years of the best S&C programs in the country any day before trying to predict how well a teenager is going to be able to transition to playing an 82-105 game NBA schedule.

It isn't even close. For one, the Pistons might not have a pick this year to even worry about. But even if they did, after the top 5-10 its all a crap shoot anyway. With the NFL you have to get production from players in rounds 3,4,5. So much more work involved with the NFL it isn't even worth discussing.

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If the Pistons want Hollins, just imagine how much money he can hold them up for. $6-$7M a year, probably with a 4th year. Ouch.

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I figured this move had Gores written all over it. When he bought the team I was hoping we'd get another Illitch, but right now it seems a lot closer to Daniel Snyder.

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I am guessing Dumars will serve out his term and then be done after the year. He is as lame duck as it gets at the moment.

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I am guessing Dumars will serve out his term and then be done after the year. He is as lame duck as it gets at the moment.

Why do you assume he is a lame duck?

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Why do you assume he is a lame duck?

After the Cheeks firing it seems pretty obvious. Dumars isn't calling the shots, Gores management team is. Gores is just doing Dumars a favor by not firing him. When he contract ends he can move on.

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After the Cheeks firing it seems pretty obvious. Dumars isn't calling the shots, Gores management team is. Gores is just doing Dumars a favor by not firing him. When he contract ends he can move on.

That isn't the first coach fired by the owner while Dumars was the GM.

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That isn't the first coach fired by the owner while Dumars was the GM.

First one for Gores though. I could very well be wrong. But the writing on the wall to me says: Dumars gone when contract expires.

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First one for Gores though. I could very well be wrong. But the writing on the wall to me says: Dumars gone when contract expires.

He might be, I just don't think Cheeks being fired is any evidence to that.

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He might be, I just don't think Cheeks being fired is any evidence to that.

At the very least, it has to be rather embarrassing for Dumars. Spends all that time on a coaching search and then is forced to can the guy he hand picked after 50 games.

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It isn't even close. For one, the Pistons might not have a pick this year to even worry about. But even if they did, after the top 5-10 its all a crap shoot anyway. With the NFL you have to get production from players in rounds 3,4,5. So much more work involved with the NFL it isn't even worth discussing.

Sorry you don't feel that this isn't worth discussing, but I feel it is easier to predict how a 21-24 year-old athlete will complete his development than it is a 19 or 20 year-old athlete.

Further, it is easier (IMO) to project how football players will project into an offensive or defensive system based on their physical and (to a lesser extent) mental tools. Perhaps I'm just conditioned to think more in football terms due to my past job experience, but I think there are a few hundred guys around the country--contributors to Scout, Rivals and such--who could draft very well on the second and third day of the NFL draft without setting foot into the NFL combine and without holding any private workouts.

There is just so much extrapolating with basketball players today because they are so much younger coming out--they lack leadership experience, life experience, and their bodies are underdeveloped. Further, their skill set usually ins't a finished product.

When you draft a running back in the first round, you don't usually have to put--or even want to put--20 lbs on him and need him to work on his fundamentals. Get better in pass pro? Learn how to carry the ball in his left hand? LOL, not so much.

The NBA drafts guys in the first round that can't dribble or finish with their off-hand. They draft guys in the high lottery that struggle to make half of their free throws, can't make a 10-foot jumper, and can't box out. These are basic skills that scouts just have to project--that doesn't happen in football.

Do you draft a linebacker in the first round that can't shed blockers? An LT on the first day with short arms? A kicker that can't hit a 45-yard FG in his sleep (on any day)?

Sure the NFL has drafted first-round duds like Andre Ware or Charles Rogers, but scouting and recruiting has come a long way since then. The NBA? I don't think as much. How else does Bennett go first overall and Porter 3rd overall in the 2013 draft? Team need alone?

And the seven rounds gives the NFL teams more chances to hedge bets and pick for value. A great example is a local kid by the name of Zeke Motta, a SS out of Notre Dame given a borderline 5* rating out of HS. We all knew he was rated too high coming out, but also knew he had a skill set that would eventually translate to the NFL--at least as a ST player. On draft day he goes in the late 7th round to the Falcons, who drafted him almost specifically as a ST player with upside that could make him useful in some defensive packages as a guy who is 6'3 230 lbs, hits like a truck and runs in the 4.5 range. It was the easiest, lowest-risk pick they made in the draft and he was all but a lock to make the pick--as a 7th rounder.

How many times does an NBA player drafted in the 50s make his team? How many times is it an easy pick?

Drafting for value on the second and third day of the draft isn't difficult if you settle for your needs instead of drafting for your wants. The Lions are guilty of trying to hit a home run with every pick, while teams like the Patriots and Steelers swing for singles and get their home runs on the 2nd and 3rd day anyway. The Pistons did this with Daye and Knight, hoping they would project into a category instead of drafting a player with more developed skills. This doesn't make them drastically different than other teams, it just shows that it is harder to draft in the NBA for the reasons I have stated throughout this diatribe.

The NBA is much more of a gamble.

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To be fair the only person who would screw that up is Al Davis.

Oh, the guy who won three Super Bowls and additional AFC and AFL titles?

It would have really been awful to have that guy screwing up the Lions over the past four or five decades.

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Sorry you don't feel that this isn't worth discussing, but I feel it is easier to predict how a 21-24 year-old athlete will complete his development than it is a 19 or 20 year-old athlete.

Further, it is easier (IMO) to project how football players will project into an offensive or defensive system based on their physical and (to a lesser extent) mental tools. Perhaps I'm just conditioned to think more in football terms due to my past job experience, but I think there are a few hundred guys around the country--contributors to Scout, Rivals and such--who could draft very well on the second and third day of the NFL draft without setting foot into the NFL combine and without holding any private workouts.

There is just so much extrapolating with basketball players today because they are so much younger coming out--they lack leadership experience, life experience, and their bodies are underdeveloped. Further, their skill set usually ins't a finished product.

When you draft a running back in the first round, you don't usually have to put--or even want to put--20 lbs on him and need him to work on his fundamentals. Get better in pass pro? Learn how to carry the ball in his left hand? LOL, not so much.

The NBA drafts guys in the first round that can't dribble or finish with their off-hand. They draft guys in the high lottery that struggle to make half of their free throws, can't make a 10-foot jumper, and can't box out. These are basic skills that scouts just have to project--that doesn't happen in football.

Do you draft a linebacker in the first round that can't shed blockers? An LT on the first day with short arms? A kicker that can't hit a 45-yard FG in his sleep (on any day)?

Sure the NFL has drafted first-round duds like Andre Ware or Charles Rogers, but scouting and recruiting has come a long way since then. The NBA? I don't think as much. How else does Bennett go first overall and Porter 3rd overall in the 2013 draft? Team need alone?

And the seven rounds gives the NFL teams more chances to hedge bets and pick for value. A great example is a local kid by the name of Zeke Motta, a SS out of Notre Dame given a borderline 5* rating out of HS. We all knew he was rated too high coming out, but also knew he had a skill set that would eventually translate to the NFL--at least as a ST player. On draft day he goes in the late 7th round to the Falcons, who drafted him almost specifically as a ST player with upside that could make him useful in some defensive packages as a guy who is 6'3 230 lbs, hits like a truck and runs in the 4.5 range. It was the easiest, lowest-risk pick they made in the draft and he was all but a lock to make the pick--as a 7th rounder.

How many times does an NBA player drafted in the 50s make his team? How many times is it an easy pick?

Drafting for value on the second and third day of the draft isn't difficult if you settle for your needs instead of drafting for your wants. The Lions are guilty of trying to hit a home run with every pick, while teams like the Patriots and Steelers swing for singles and get their home runs on the 2nd and 3rd day anyway. The Pistons did this with Daye and Knight, hoping they would project into a category instead of drafting a player with more developed skills. This doesn't make them drastically different than other teams, it just shows that it is harder to draft in the NBA for the reasons I have stated throughout this diatribe.

The NBA is much more of a gamble.

We don't need to discuss it because I knew you would come back with something like this.

Other than landing a star in the top 10, the NBA draft is pretty meaningless in terms of winning titles. In the last 30 years, name a champion that won a title based on how well they drafted outside the top 10? The Spurs are the only team that even comes close.

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...

The NBA is much more of a gamble.

I think this is pretty accurate. Yes, even in the NFL draft you may not know about a guy's intangibles and whether he will will reach an elite level, but you do know if he can play, that you can plug him in and get get a positive contribution. Drafting 19 yr old 7 footers who have only been in their own skin for maybe a year is nuts. Dummond is the poster child example. Sure, he's an ally-ooping-rebounding beast, but right now that's it. IF he can learn to make FTs and not to get lost on a defensive switch, then he can be a perennial two-way playing all-star. Will he? Can anybody tell with any probability watching him even now, almost two years *after* he came out?

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I hate the Cheeks hiring from the beginning, absolutely hated it but it's kind of odd that they fired him after a 2 game winning streak and a 4-2 stretch. Not that the team has been lighting the league on fire, but odd timing nonetheless.

It seems like Gores is becoming impatient which begs the question, why are all these coaches getting fired yet the GM who hires these guys and who has created the whole mess remains? Cut the head off the snake and the body will fall. Cutting off pieces of the body isn't going to change a thing.

With that being said, this is an opportunity to right a wrong and bring in Lionel Hollins. If he's interested, it's really a no brainer.

I'm guessing since this was a Gores move that Dumars has to be on thin ice. He just has to be.

If he is on thin ice, then why not turf him now? I sure hope that Gores doesn't think that coaching is the main problem. Giving Dumars another trade deadline to work with could prove to be costly so why not make the change now if he's unhappy with the situation? He obviously doesn't trust his coaching decisions by now stripping the power from him so why trust any of his other decisions?

Edited by NYLion

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