Jump to content

sagnam

2014 Lions Offseason

Recommended Posts

The Lions are in a different conference than the Patriots, so I don't know how that is relevant. They need to be better than the NFC, which is the tougher conference right now.

Who in the NFC do you think is better than the Lions right now?

I think Seattle, San Fran, Carolina, Arizona, Philly, New Orleans, and Green Bay are better. The Lions are about equal to the Bears and St. Louis. They're better than Minnesota, Dallas, Washington, the Giants, Tampa, and Atlanta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still have Clowney ahead of Mack, but both are special either way.

I agree, my top 3 would be Clowney, Watkins, Mack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who in the NFC do you think is better than the Lions right now?

I think Seattle, San Fran, Carolina, Arizona, Philly, New Orleans, and Green Bay are better. The Lions are about equal to the Bears and St. Louis. They're better than Minnesota, Dallas, Washington, the Giants, Tampa, and Atlanta.

That's definitely fair, but I think we are also a tough team to judge. I think we have a ton of potential for improvement internally. Less turnovers, less penalties, hopefully a healthy Calvin and a better STafford. I feel we have some pretty high ceiling talent with a lot of potential to improve as well. Specifically Ansah,Slay and Fairley. I also think we can improve by running the ball more effectively and blitzing more often. I think the Tate addition is huge too given how bad Durham was over his 80 targets.

All teams have potential for improvement, but I think its hard to argue that we have a particularly high potential for improvement. Mistakes have dogged us as much as a lack of talent, this will be our 2nd straight top 10 pick(which I think is more relevant given where you ranked us in conference) and we have a guy who at the very least, has the potential to be a franchise QB if he cleans things up just a little bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

All I'm really saying in the end is that it would be foolish for us to overpay just because of some perceived leverage Suh has. Take a deal in the 11-13 range with reasonable guarantees or hit the open market. That would be my strategy as the FO.

Agreed. I think if the Lions think Suh has 'leverage' they are just wrong. An interior D lineman simply cannot have enough impact on the field as the game of football is currently played to have leverage for the top salary in the league, That was the Lion's first mistake and it's been a costly one, but it shouldn't be compounded by them negotiating against themselves and some perceived leverage they may think Suh has going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who in the NFC do you think is better than the Lions right now?

I think Seattle, San Fran, Carolina, Arizona, Philly, New Orleans, and Green Bay are better. The Lions are about equal to the Bears and St. Louis. They're better than Minnesota, Dallas, Washington, the Giants, Tampa, and Atlanta.

We'll see next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed. I think if the Lions think Suh has 'leverage' they are just wrong. An interior D lineman simply cannot have enough impact on the field as the game of football is currently played to have leverage for the top salary in the league, That was the Lion's first mistake and it's been a costly one, but it shouldn't be compounded by them negotiating against themselves and some perceived leverage they may think Suh has going forward.

I think the leverage would have come if and only if the Lions were dead set on restructuring his contract THIS year to avoid his $23M cap hit. If they were desperately trying to win now and wanted to use the additional cap space to get some additional pieces for this coming year Suh would have had quite a bit of leverage. Now that it doesn't seem to be the case I think you are fair in saying there is no true leverage left in Suh's camp and I for one would prefer him to walk simply because, like you, I don't think he will make enough plays to warrant his contract and would rather than resign Fairley at around half the price of Suh and use the additional cap space elsewhere on the defense (DE, Secondary).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the leverage would have come if and only if the Lions were dead set on restructuring his contract THIS year to avoid his $23M cap hit. If they were desperately trying to win now and wanted to use the additional cap space to get some additional pieces for this coming year Suh would have had quite a bit of leverage. Now that it doesn't seem to be the case I think you are fair in saying there is no true leverage left in Suh's camp and I for one would prefer him to walk simply because, like you, I don't think he will make enough plays to warrant his contract and would rather than resign Fairley at around half the price of Suh and use the additional cap space elsewhere on the defense (DE, Secondary).

To each their own,but I think double the money for Suh gets you much more value. I think he's one of the 10 or so best defensive players in the league, capable of dominating any given game. Invest in Fairley and you might well end up with nothing impactful at DT when it is now one of, if not your strongest position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To each their own,but I think double the money for Suh gets you much more value. I think he's one of the 10 or so best defensive players in the league, capable of dominating any given game. Invest in Fairley and you might well end up with nothing impactful at DT when it is now one of, if not your strongest position.

I am in complete agreement Nastradamus. I definitely would give Suh $13 mil compared to $6 mil for Fairly, but think Fairly will be at least closer to $8 + mil anyhow. I know some don't see it, but I think Suh changes offensive line game plans as much or more than any DL in the league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mayhew made some comments saying basically never say never on DJax.

I saw a report that Caldwell said that. Didn't see a Mayhew quote too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To each their own,but I think double the money for Suh gets you much more value. I think he's one of the 10 or so best defensive players in the league, capable of dominating any given game. Invest in Fairley and you might well end up with nothing impactful at DT when it is now one of, if not your strongest position.

It's our strongest position, but what has that gotten us? We also spend 40% more than the next highest spender at DT. And it would also depend on whom they got for the remainder of the money. Let's assume Suh comes in at around a $13M cap hit, let's assume Fairley is at $5-6M, that gives you $7-8M more in cap space to play with. That money could allow you to re-sign a player that you would otherwise have to let go or net you a key free agent piece. But like you said, to each their own...if given the choice between Suh (who has had on-and-off the field issues) on a long term deal with quite a bit of money guaranteed or Fairley + DRC (or some other top tier CB who would come in and be our #1) both on lesser deals with less guaranteed, I think I would choose the later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No way I'd make that move. Two guys who don't love football and one is an outside FA.

I don't agree with this idea that having Suh and strength at DT hasn't gotten us anything either. Just because we haven't won a SB doesn't mean that none of our players are valuable. We had a top 5 run defense and our DL has been the strength of our D in recent years. They need help, not to be depleted. We finally have an elite defensive player for the first time in a long time. Letting him go rather than paying him market value is just so ridiculous to me.

The cap in the NFL is a joke anyways. You can always sign guys when you need to. Letting your cornerstones go in the name of cap space is bad business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure it wouldn't happen anyways, but just out of curiosity. You have a chance to cut Reggie Bush and sign Chris Johnson. Do you do it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fair enough. If the money were equal or close I know I'd do it in a heartbeat though.

I'll take the team guy over the 'me first, hold out after a good year' guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, I think that stuff has been oversold. I try not to buy into that. Mostly, I don't trust Bush to stay healthy and he has more miles on him than CJ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fair enough. If the money were equal or close I know I'd do it in a heartbeat though.

I was actually assuming Chris Johnson's money to be lower when I said no.

I consider Bush to simply be a better player at this point in their career. Bush has had (slightly) better rushing production the last three years (going by yards-per-attempt average) but offers a better skill set in the passing game. He also has significantly fewer carries which offsets the age difference. Bush is also a more mature human being.

I am open to the idea of releasing Bush, but I would want to replace him in the draft - not free agency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, to all the guys that think we should cut Suh and maybe cut Bush to save money and to have cap space..... there is precedent for that thinking...... Matt Millen had that idea and turned the Lions into an expansion team!

Pay Suh, Pay Stafford, Pay CJ..... pay your best players! Enough of this nonsense talk!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You know, to all the guys that think we should cut Suh and maybe cut Bush to save money and to have cap space..... there is precedent for that thinking...... Matt Millen had that idea and turned the Lions into an expansion team!

Pay Suh, Pay Stafford, Pay CJ..... pay your best players! Enough of this nonsense talk!

The Bush comments had nothing to do with money. I have no desire to release him. I am simply a big Chris Johnson fan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No way is Chris Johnson more valuable than Reggie bush. That is some nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No way is Chris Johnson more valuable than Reggie bush. That is some nonsense.

I mean, I don't really understand that sentiment, but to each his own. IMO Johnson has more potential for dominance, less potential for injury and an ability to take more carries. I think he gives you a lot more versatility back there in terms of what defenses have to prepare for. Bush as a starting RB just completely determines the way you have to play and that worries me. Bell starting would alleviate some of that, but I think a different back would help our flexibility.

- Here's a good stat on the subject. Career runs of 20+ yards - Bush - 29. Cj - 68(22 in one season)

Career runs of 40+ Bush - 5 CJ - 16

CJ has also played 2 fewer seasons and has 7 more offensive TDs and 100 more rushing 1st downs. Johnson has missed one game in his 6 year career. Bush has missed 23

Edited by Nastradamus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I mean, I don't really understand that sentiment, but to each his own. IMO Johnson has more potential for dominance, less potential for injury and an ability to take more carries. I think he gives you a lot more versatility back there in terms of what defenses have to prepare for. Bush as a starting RB just completely determines the way you have to play and that worries me. Bell starting would alleviate some of that, but I think a different back would help our flexibility.

I agree with most of this - I would prefer Johnson over Bush as a bellcow back - I'd rather have Bell as my starter over either Bush or Johnson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with most of this - I would prefer Johnson over Bush as a bellcow back - I'd rather have Bell as my starter over either Bush or Johnson.

I'm a huge Bell guy, so I'm not going to argue that one. That's my main point on Bush/Johnson though. You have more of a threat to line up and run down a team's throat and then get some play action off of it. He's just more capable of taking advantage of the 6 and 7 man boxes our RB will see. I'd be very curious to see what Lombardi would do with a guy like that. Both guys are going to catch 50 balls for you at around 8-9 ypc, so I don't see a ton of difference there. We don't line Bush up in the slot a ton anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...