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Lions hire Jim Caldwell as head coach

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Senior just came out and gave a press conference talking about how great the hire was!

Oh my God! The kiss of death!

Was he hiccup-ing in between slurring his words?

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Save it, Buddha. I've supported almost every move the tigers have made.

Why not support every move? After all, management made the move and therefore it must be a part of a well thought out process? How could we - laymen - dare to question the moves of Tigers management?

Right?

Or is it just the moves of the ultra successful Lions management that dare not be questioned? Oh Lions fans, we are sooo stupid!

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Buddha, I'm honestly not sure why you are being so hostile toward me.

You win.

Because I like you. And I hate this move.

Therefore, you're supposed to hate this move too.

Get with the program! ;P

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Because I like you. And I hate this move.

Therefore, you're supposed to hate this move too.

Get with the program! ;P

Oh, well that makes sense.

I actually don't like the move. I just don't dislike the move. I'm actually devoid of emotion regarding this move. Who the hell knows? It's an NFL coach.

And I would feel exactly the same if it was the Wiz.

This entire conversation is based on the competing narratives of what appear to be two relatively similar coaches.

Too many moving parts when it comes to NFL coaching success.

I just can't get worked up about it.

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I think Lion fans should probably be more concerned that Brian Xanders is probably going to leave to be Miami's GM than they are about the hiring of an uninspired head coaching hire.

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Oh, well that makes sense.

I actually don't like the move. I just don't dislike the move. I'm actually devoid of emotion regarding this move. Who the hell knows? It's an NFL coach.

And I would feel exactly the same if it was the Wiz.

This entire conversation is based on the competing narratives of what appear to be two relatively similar coaches.

Too many moving parts when it comes to NFL coaching success.

I just can't get worked up about it.

It's extremely frustrating to follow this franchise.

They fire Schwartz a year too late so they miss out on a number of great candidates. Then they limit their search here to "former coaches" and then listen to Tony Dungy tell them that his friend would be a great coach (even though he has no history of being a great coach).

It's so typical of a franchise that has no idea how to be successful.

I don't know a ton about football, nobody on this site really does. But I know the Lions have been a continual failure for my entire lifetime. The unfortunate thing is that this move for a retread uninspired coach is completely unsurprising.

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A tale of two organizations.

In 1992, the Pittsburgh Steelers waited until January 21...after the Conference Championship games...to hire the young and energetic Bill Cowher at the age of 35. In 2007, the Pittsburgh Steelers waited until January 22...after the Conference Championship games...to hire the young and energetic Mike Tomlin at the age of 35.

The Detroit Lions hired their last two coaches (Jim Schwartz and Jim Caldwell) on January 15 and 14, respectively.

That's the difference between an organization that is patient and does its due diligence and is not afraid to wait, and one that does not practice due diligence evident by the fact they only had 4 coaches (all retreads) interviewed. The Lions couldn't wait until after the Conference Championships to see if Gase or Quin would be available? Gase, certainly, fits the mold of a Cowher or Tomlin type hire.

By the way, the Steelers have had THREE coaches since 1969...and SIX Super Bowl wins since the 1970s. The Lions have ONE playoff win since 1957...as if it bears repeating.

Damn! If the Ford's had realized this they could have waited until February to hire a coach and guaranteed a Super Bowl berth next year.

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Here is my dream scenario.

Okay, here's what's gonna happen.

Jim Harbaugh and the 49ers will not reconcile their differences and when he becomes available, the Cincinnati Bengals will hire him as Head Coach and he will turn Andy Dalton into a Pro Bowl QB and lead the Bengals to a title.

Greg Roman will take the job in Minnesota and turn them with QB Johnny Manziel into an 11-5 team.

The 49ers will swoop in and get Stanford's David Shaw and continue as a contender.

Ken Whisenhunt will get Tennessee into the playoffs with rookie QB Blake Bortles.

The Dallas Cowboys will convince Bob Stoops to leave Oklahoma and will win their first division title in years.

Meanwhile the Lions will Jim Caldwell will go 8-8 and cite, boastfully, of their one game improvement.

Why did they have to move this fast? They should have waited two weeks.

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Why did they have to move this fast? They should have waited two weeks.

Because the other two teams that need a coach, Cleveland and Minnesota, were going to swoop in any minute and steal their backup plan, Jim Caldwell. Then, they would be stuck having to interview only unqualified candidates like Gase, Quin, Roman, Shaw, Bowles, and the unnamed high-profile successful ex-head coach who showed interest in the job.

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Because the other two teams that need a coach, Cleveland and Minnesota, were going to swoop in any minute and steal their backup plan, Jim Caldwell. Then, they would be stuck having to interview only unqualified candidates like Gase, Quin, Roman, Shaw, Bowles, and the unnamed high-profile successful ex-head coach who showed interest in the job.

Oh, you mean Mike Holmgren? Yeah, why talk to him?

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Caldwell is 58 years old. Right now. We will need a new head coach in a couple of years. This has no chance of working out well. An inspired hire would have been Adam Gase, who is 35 years old, he'll be 36 in March. He has a whole life ahead of him. There is nothing that Caldwell could do to establish an identity. Because really, this is the team that Mayhew and Schwartz put together. This team will still have Schwartz's identity for some time, until Stafford, Suh, and Megatron are gone (and I know, Marinelli/Millen drafted Megatron).

I think that might not be a bad thing though. We need a polish, not a new identity.

The key is Lazor and Austin. If they emerge as two talented, young coordinators, then that is where the franchise really lies.

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I actually don't like the move. I just don't dislike the move. I'm actually devoid of emotion regarding this move. Who the hell knows?

This is where I'm at.

What I'm more worried about is Xanders leaving for the Miami GM job and the coordinators that are chosen.

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This is worse than 0-16. This is worse than false hope. This is no hope.

You know it's bad when even Cruzer is on board with the masses.

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I think Lion fans should probably be more concerned that Brian Xanders is probably going to leave to be Miami's GM than they are about the hiring of an uninspired head coaching hire.

Yes, it's not some sheer stroke of luck we had our best draft in years with him.

Xanders should have been hired as the lions gm this year. Instead we will be looking for one in 2 years along with a new head coach.

This garbage is hopeless. That's 2 years from Johnson's and stafford, etc prime. It tools is 6 +years of misery to get in current situation and we get this ****.

There wasn't a hands down pick for coach but there were safe decent alternatives with high upside.

**** this **** man.

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A more savvy owner would've jumped right in after the Whisenhunt fiasco and fired Mayhew and promoted Xanders to GM. Then, leave the finding of a new coach up to Xanders. Instead, we have an owner who used to drink champagne cocktails for dinner and now probably is fed his lunch thru a straw. His incompetent son is like a wide-eyed puppy dog following along and wagging his tail while he attends cocktail parties...all the while incredulous at his good fortune of being born into wealth. Xanders will be gone, most likely, in the next day or two.

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I would LOL if Harbaugh had a falling out with Frisco and became available and the Lions as usual jumped the gun and hired a coach who would've been available until after the Super Bowl.

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This hiring as Bill Ford Senior written all over it.

Caldwell is a nice guy. He's a gentleman. He's a family guy. He comes recommended by a "good man" in Tony Dungy.

Typical Ford. Hires the nicest loser.

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They were already in FG range as it was. Depending on what the Jets chose to do in regards to passing vs running, calling a TO in that situation at least gave the Colts a chance a possibility of getting the ball back.

It is debateable whether the Jets were truly in field goal range as their kicker hadn't demonstrated a consistent ability to kick 50 yard field goals, but more importantly there are significantly different outcome liklihood states inside of field goal range. Forcing a 45 yard field goal is better than forcing a 35 yard field goal, which in turn is better than forcing a 25 yard field goal, yet all are in field goal range.

Secondly, while it is possible the Colts could have forced a turnover or a play for loss by making the Jets make an extra play, it is far more likely outcome was the Jets gain extra yards with the extra play. Every NFL team ever in the modern era has averaged positive yards per play and turnovers are fairly rare.

As to the possibility of getting the ball back after a Jets made FG, as a practical matter, what are we talking about? 15 seconds after the kickoff with no timeouts, tops? If that? I just don't see the benefit of that as being anything near the downside of giving the Jets another play when they are on the edge of field goal range.

It turned out that the Jets did throw the ball and risked an incomplete pass which would have increased the Colts odds of getting the ball back. Instead, they allowed a 17 yard catch and easier FG, but he couldn't really know that was going to happen prior to calling the TO.

Of course the Jets tried for a pass. It was a highly predictable outcome. It isn't likely Jets wanted to settle for a 50 yard field goal attempt.

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I don't have any idea whether Jim Caldwell is going to be good or not. There are other coaches out there with experience (Billick/Munchak/Holmgren), and some that are the up & comers that may make fan bases drool (Gase, Roman). Is Caldwell better than any of them? I don't know. What I do know is Mayhew thinks the world of Tony Dungy. He played under him and knows his style. He also knows the talent this team has, & the lack of discipline they've shown on the field. It's not like this hire was out of the blue. Going after the hot name does nothing. It's only a good or bad hire when we see what happens on the field. Winning will cure everything.

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From what I have read, Caldwell is the exact opposite of Schwartz in his demeanor. Schwartz seemed to be hot headed at times and Caldwell is calm and cool and respected by many in the NFL. If there was a positive about Caldwell, I think this is it. Caldwell will not be throwing his headset like Schwartz did.

Again, I hope he does well because I am a Lions fan and want to see them succeed.

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A more savvy owner would've jumped right in after the Whisenhunt fiasco and fired Mayhew and promoted Xanders to GM. Then, leave the finding of a new coach up to Xanders. Instead, we have an owner who used to drink champagne cocktails for dinner and now probably is fed his lunch thru a straw. His incompetent son is like a wide-eyed puppy dog following along and wagging his tail while he attends cocktail parties...all the while incredulous at his good fortune of being born into wealth. Xanders will be gone, most likely, in the next day or two.

I agree with most of this, the part I agree with most is letting a new GM pick out their own coach. How many times did we see Millen do this? He had a bunch of losing seasons and instead of shouldering the blame he just fired his head coach and hired a new one which all but guaranteed that he would have another 2-3 years to try and right the ship. In seven years as GM, Millen went through 4 coaches try and cover up his ineptitude. Now, Mayhew is doing the exact same thing.

This team isn't Jim Caldwell away from winning the Super Bowl, I wish the owners would understand that fact and do what SHOULD be done. Hire a new GM, let them pick their own staff and head coach and start over not from a roster standpoint, but from a front office standpoint.

Edit:

One thing that I think is funny is that throughout many of these recent threads there are a group of Lions fans who are constantly trying to rationalize and convince themselves and others that things aren't nearly as bad as they seem. Take a step back from being a Lions fan, do you think winning organizations fans have to do the same type of rationalizing? Us Lions fans hope that Caldwell turns out to be a good coach despite his lack of success as the main guy, we rationalize Caldwell's notorious blunders as "not that big of a deal," we just hope we can make the playoffs because if we do, "anything can happen." These examples show the lack of confidence in a team, a coach, and an organization. We shouldn't have to rationalize, we should be celebrating new hires and positive moves not just saying, "well, I don't like it...but I don't hate it."

Edited by EchO

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I think that might not be a bad thing though. We need a polish' date=' not a new identity.

The key is Lazor and Austin. If they emerge as two talented, young coordinators, then that is where the franchise really lies.[/quote']

There's something to be said about this. It all depends on how the staff is put together and what actual control the "lower level" guys have, but imagine this situation:

The OC is given (more or less) complete control over the offense. He designs the plays, he sets the tempo of the game, the identity of the team on offense. He basically runs it has his own unit as he sees fit.

Likewise the DC is given (more or less) complete control over the defense. Like with the offense he's got the control over his unit.

The HC now, becomes a sort of facilitator. He give his coordinators objectives (ie, I want us to concentrate as ball security, and a strong running game -- or, be aggressive on the defense and blitz the QB regularly), then let's them decide the best way to do that and help them get the right people (coaches, players, etc). In this situation the OC and DC become just as important, if not more important, than the HC.

Now, I have no idea if this is what Caldwell is going to do or not, but I think that any HC has to do this to some degree. I think this is also why some coordinators just flat out fail as HC's while still be successful as coordinators (Mornhinweg it's perhaps a good example of this). You have to let some control go in order to move from coordinator to HC.

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Yes, it's not some sheer stroke of luck we had our best draft in years with him.

Xanders should have been hired as the lions gm this year. Instead we will be looking for one in 2 years along with a new head coach.

You can never really evaluate a draft this early. Everything looks very promising, but how many times in the past have we said that? For example I seem to remember the Lions getting TONS of praise for the 2004 draft and it really looked promising initially. Kevin Jones and Roy Williams looked to be studs after the first year.

So before we label 2013 as the best draft in years, let's wait and see if Ansah ever develops his raw talent. Let's see if Slay can being the CB we hope he can develop into. And Let's see if Warford is a solid guy for the next 5 years. I fully expect all these things to play out (with the exception of Slay... I'm not terrible high on him, but we'll see), but again, we expected Roy Williams to be a stud receiver. We expected Jones to be a solid if not star running back after 2004. Neither of those things ended up happening.

Now... having said all that I do think Xanders helped with player evaluation and I will be disappointed if he leaves.

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