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Vonlenska

Lions hire Jim Caldwell as head coach

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You conveniently used only the percentage based stat that supported your argument, to be fair.


YearCmp%TD%Int%Y/ARate
199836.4003.547.2
1999*+65.18.22.68.7109.2
2000*67.76.15.29.998.3
2001*+68.76.648.8101.4
200265.51.456.567.4
200358.51.51.55.672.9
200462.82.21.47.486.5
200564.52.92.47.285.8
200664.33.638.289.3
200762.363.87.689.8
2008*67.152.37.796.9
200966.15.12.77.393.2

His TD%, INT%, Comp%, and QBR all went up fairly significantly.

I didn't say there wasn't any improvement, and forgive me for not posting every stat.

I just feel that yards per attempt is the best measure of a QB.

I would argue that those numbers are not "significantly" improved.

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To be fair, I didn't say there was no interest...I asked if there was any and included the disclaimer (seemingly) as I hadn't heard anything.

My apologies for lumping you in with the others saying he didn't get any.

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I didn't say there wasn't any improvement, and forgive me for not posting every stat.

I just feel that yards per attempt is the best measure of a QB.

I would argue that those numbers are not "significantly" improved.

Yards per attempt is one of the most useless stats in quarterbacking. It's all a function of the type of offense. Higher percentage (i.e. shorter) passes results in lower yards per attempt.

Stafford, Dalton, Palmer, Romo, RGIII, Ryan Fitzpatrick...to name just a few...all had higher Yards Per Attempt than Tom Brady this season.

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I didn't say there wasn't any improvement, and forgive me for not posting every stat.

I just feel that yards per attempt is the best measure of a QB.

I would argue that those numbers are not "significantly" improved.

Him doubling his TD%, improving his accuracy, throwing less interceptions as a 36-38 year old is impressive in my book. When a QB is 36-38 I think the assumption is that his stats would trend downward due to age, Warner got better every year under Whisenhunt and had his best years at age 36-38 since he was 30 playing for the Rams and the greatest show on turf.

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Him doubling his TD%, improving his accuracy, throwing less interceptions as a 36-38 year old is impressive in my book. When a QB is 36-38 I think the assumption is that his stats would trend downward due to age, Warner got better every year under Whisenhunt and had his best years at age 36-38 since he was 30 playing for the Rams and the greatest show on turf.

Agreed. And Philip Rivers had a similar improvement this season under Whisenhunt. QB rating improved from 88.6 in 2011 and 88.7 in 2012, up to 105.5 this year under the Whiz.

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I didn't see a response to the post at the top of this page. It seems safe to say the Titans weren't going to hire him since they just hired Whisenhunt...is Caldwell such a catch that we needed to hire him right now and not 3 weeks from now?

This just reeks of SOL. But as someone else mentioned, I think the bigger issue is possibly losing Xanders to the Dolphins...contrary to some on this board I value a solid front office more so than the head coach. As was mentioned in this thread, no coach is going to turn a roster that lacks talent to the Super Bowl. I don't think we are at the talent level necessary to be considered a top team, until that is the case I don't think the coach will matter in the least.

I think it's safe to say that if he wasn't hired until three weeks from now people would still be upset with the hire. Plus they'd add on that many of the good OC and DC candidates were scooped up by that point. I don't know if the OC/DC reasoning validates the hire now, but it is something to think about.

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Yards per attempt is one of the most useless stats in quarterbacking. It's all a function of the type of offense. Higher percentage (i.e. shorter) passes results in lower yards per attempt.

Stafford, Dalton, Palmer, Romo, RGIII, Ryan Fitzpatrick...to name just a few...all had higher Yards Per Attempt than Tom Brady this season.

The same could be said about total yards and touchdowns.

This year's leaders in yards per attempt.

Foles

Rodgers

Manning

Rivers (wiz!)

Wilson

Mccown

Brees

Kap

Palmer

Cutler

Brady's numbers are down this year, but he was in the top 10 last year and second in 2011 and fifth in 2010.

It's a better stat than total yards or TDs.

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Seeing as how this is at least the second time it has been mentioned (especially with that gem at the top of the page), Caldwell interviewed for the Titans and Redskins job.

Two teams that had already hired other coaches. He was just a Rooney Rule interview for other teams.

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So we hired a coach with mediocre success, who has made questionable in-game decisions...sounds about right. They were mentioning on 97.1 throughout the day about how it doesn't make sense to make this hire now before seeing how the Super Bowl plays out and potentially interviewing candidates who are linked to teams that are still in the playoffs.

Was Caldwell linked to ANY other team? With many of the "big name" guys off the board, what was the benefit of hiring Caldwell when no one else was (seemingly) looking at him as an option?

I agree with this. They weren't going to lose out on Caldwell, at this point, by waiting until after the Super Bowl to re-open the interview process. It could be argued that they forced their own hand (just like I believe they did with Schwartz's extension). I won't push that argument too hard, seeing as how they had determined they wanted head coaching experience, which is not entirely unreasonable.

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Two teams that had already hired other coaches. He was just a Rooney Rule interview for other teams.

I had forgotten that the Redskins hired Jay Gruden...that even furthers my initial point that the Lions could have, realistically, waited to make this hire.

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And let's not forget the other offensive weapons that Warner had at his disposal in 2008-2009.

Boldin

Fitz

Breaston

Hightower

Maybe it was wisenhunt. I would say that more accurately in the combination of wisenhunt and Warner and the supporting cast.

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And let's not forget the other offensive weapons that Warner had at his disposal in 2008-2009.

Boldin

Fitz

Breaston

Hightower

Maybe it was wisenhunt. I would say that more accurately in the combination of wisenhunt and Warner and the supporting cast.

I wouldn't argue that for a second. I don't mind that we hired Caldwell, no coach can win with a team lacking depth and talent 1-53 on the depth chart. I don't think any coach will succeed until we get the right players. I'm not confident in this front office, coach, or players...this team, as currently constructed, is not a team that is a Super Bowl contender, in my opinion.

Edit:

We keep mentioning Caldwell vs. Whisenhunt's resume and what they did with what players or what team...maybe the bigger issue should be looking at the Lions vs. the teams they had success with. Is our team as good as the Peyton Manning led Colts, or the Ravens with Flacco throwing 22 TDs and 0 INT (can you imagine Stafford ever pulling off something like that?), or even the Kurt Warner/Whisenhunt led Cardinals with all of their offensive weapons?

Edited by EchO

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I get that it was a mistake. But I am arguing, was it really that big of a mistake? The way it is being portrayed by this board it sounds like one of the biggest blunders. But it doesn't seem that bad. The Jets would have used a timeout if the colts didn't. If neither team calls a timeout the Jets spike it with 20 secs left, still well within FG range.

They should have let the clock run, but either way, that clock was getting stopped. I was under the impression that without Caldwell calling the TO the colts would have won the game. But when you look at it, with or without the timeout, the probability the colts lost was very high. I don't think the TO by Caldwell changed the outcome probability of game at all.

You are splitting hairs while arguing the degree of stupidity of the timeout. Either way it was stupid. It was 2nd down with 33 seconds left and each team had a single timeout.

There was no indication in the video of the Jets hurrying to the line to spike the ball. Perhaps they would have, but then they Jets still only have 35 seconds to call a play, rather than the time available after a timeout. Add to that it was 2nd down and the Colts were out of timeouts the Jets were now free to pass the ball if they chose knowing the clock would run after a rush on 3rd down.

The Colts would have been lucky if the Jets spiked the ball on 2nd down, because that would allow them to then call their timeout after the eventual 3rd down run. Nothing good could come from calling the TO on 2nd down that wouldn't have been been available after 3rd down. Best case scenario for the Colts is that the Jets let the clock run and attempt that 49 yard field goal on 2nd down.

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The advantage the Colts gained from calling the timeout was much less than what the Jets gained. There was no point in calling the timeout from the Colts perspective.

The Colts' goal in that situation should have been to let the clock run down rather than stop the clock.

They were already in FG range as it was. Depending on what the Jets chose to do in regards to passing vs running, calling a TO in that situation at least gave the Colts a chance a possibility of getting the ball back. It turned out that the Jets did throw the ball and risked an incomplete pass which would have increased the Colts odds of getting the ball back. Instead, they allowed a 17 yard catch and easier FG, but he couldn't really know that was going to happen prior to calling the TO.

I agree it wasn't the right call, but I don't think it was that big of a deal either way. It was just unconventional b/c most coaches will just let the clock wind down to a few seconds left and watch the other team either win or lose a game on a last second FG rather than possibly saving enough time for their offense to get the ball back.

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And let's not forget the other offensive weapons that Warner had at his disposal in 2008-2009.

Boldin

Fitz

Breaston

Hightower

Maybe it was wisenhunt. I would say that more accurately in the combination of wisenhunt and Warner and the supporting cast.

You keep throwing this crap up there hoping nobody will notice. Boldin and Fitzgerald were both in AZ during the Denny Green years with Warner. Hightower was a non-factor...Breaston little more than a 3rd receiver. I'm not even the biggest Whisenhunt defender, but you keep throwing up these false stats (probably you are doing it facetiously).

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You keep throwing this crap up there hoping nobody will notice. Boldin and Fitzgerald were both in AZ during the Denny Green years with Warner. Hightower was a non-factor...Breaston little more than a 3rd receiver. I'm not even the biggest Whisenhunt defender, but you keep throwing up these false stats (probably you are doing it facetiously).

I'm not suggesting that they weren't there under green.

There is nothing false about mentioning the talent around Warner during his "revival" years.

Hightower was good. Whatever.

Breaston caught 77 passes for over 1000 yards in 2008. But you are technically correct that he was the third receiver.

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Hey Shelton, you can stop being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian any time now. It's getting old.

If you can't see why lions fans would be extremely underwhelmed with this hire, you don't follow the NFL very closely. And if you don't know why Lions fans might be skeptical that their current ownership hired another poor choice as a coach, you don't follow the Lions very closely.

Suffice to say, Lions fans have every reason to be very skeptical of this move.

You question the moves the Tigers make all the time yet you decide to call out LIONS fans for questioning the organization's ability to make the correct management decision?

Come on. Give me a break.

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This is worse than 0-16. This is worse than false hope. This is no hope.

Cruzer, you've finally hit the spot where most Lions fans have been for the last 40 years.

It's obvious that Junior is no better than Senior. He's just a chip off the ol' block. The same ol' loser block...

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Senior just came out and gave a press conference talking about how great the hire was!

Oh my God! The kiss of death!

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Caldwell is 58 years old. Right now. We will need a new head coach in a couple of years. This has no chance of working out well. An inspired hire would have been Adam Gase, who is 35 years old, he'll be 36 in March. He has a whole life ahead of him. There is nothing that Caldwell could do to establish an identity. Because really, this is the team that Mayhew and Schwartz put together. This team will still have Schwartz's identity for some time, until Stafford, Suh, and Megatron are gone (and I know, Marinelli/Millen drafted Megatron).

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Hey Shelton, you can stop being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian any time now. It's getting old.

If you can't see why lions fans would be extremely underwhelmed with this hire, you don't follow the NFL very closely. And if you don't know why Lions fans might be skeptical that their current ownership hired another poor choice as a coach, you don't follow the Lions very closely.

Suffice to say, Lions fans have every reason to be very skeptical of this move.

You question the moves the Tigers make all the time yet you decide to call out LIONS fans for questioning the organization's ability to make the correct management decision?

Come on. Give me a break.

Save it, Buddha. I've supported almost every move the tigers have made.

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