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Lions hire Jim Caldwell as head coach

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I can only speak for myself but wiz seemed to have a good track record of helping QBs. Caldwell not so much; not bad, but a more limited record. I never saw wiz as "great" or a "guru" though.

And getting Arizona to their first SB with a revived Warner certainly has a ring to it for Lions fans, no?

Was Warner really revived?

Yeah, he got them to the Super Bowl in 2008, but his numbers seem pretty steady. And it doesn't hurt to have fitz and anquan.

I'm not saying that wiz didn't help Warner improve some, but he wasn't a huge reclamation project either. His numbers under wiz are hardly better than his numbers under Denny green.

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Let's face it, this is an affirmative action hire. The problem is that if the Lions wanted to give a black head coach a chance, Caldwell was the worst one available.

I think one look at the Lions front office would dissuade anyone of this, they have no "need" for an affirmative action hire.

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You could arguably defend the time out as Caldwell trying to force the jets into a mistake if he believed that the jets were safely in FG range and that a loss was imminent.

I disagree, but it's an argument that could be made.

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I'm beginning to think this will turn out to be a George Costanza "opposite" hire. Lions fans hate the hire generally which nearly guarantees at least a playoff win if not a playoff run.

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Can you replay it for me? I remember a timeout issue but I cannot remember the specifics.

vOcZhoZoWOE

I think the problem with it was that the Jets only had one timeout so when Caldwell called timeout it gave them more time to run more plays for more yards for an easier field goal. If the Colts don't call timeout, the Jets may have run the clock down to 3 seconds and then called timeout to set up for a field goal try. Manning's face says it all.

Edited by nd1377

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I think one look at the Lions front office would dissuade anyone of this, they have no "need" for an affirmative action hire.

Who even notices stuff like this anymore? It's not 1950.

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Was Warner really revived?

Yeah, he got them to the Super Bowl in 2008, but his numbers seem pretty steady. And it doesn't hurt to have fitz and anquan.

I'm not saying that wiz didn't help Warner improve some, but he wasn't a huge reclamation project either. His numbers under wiz are hardly better than his numbers under Denny green.

What? Did you throw that out there hoping nobody would check? Warner's career was dead in the water before Whisenhunt became the coach in Arizona. Under Denny Green, Warner sucked. His stats prove that out.

Denny Green:

2005 (Warner) - 11 TD 9 INT, 2713 passing yards, 2-8 record

2006 (Warner) - 6 TD 5 INT, 1377 yds, 1-4 record

Ken Whisenhunt:

2007 (Warner) - 27 TD 17 INT, 3417 yds, 5-6 record

2008 (Warner) - 30 TD 14 INT, 4583 yds, 9-7 record

2009 (Warner) - 26 TD 14 INT, 3753 yds, 10-5 record

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So we hired a coach with mediocre success, who has made questionable in-game decisions...sounds about right. They were mentioning on 97.1 throughout the day about how it doesn't make sense to make this hire now before seeing how the Super Bowl plays out and potentially interviewing candidates who are linked to teams that are still in the playoffs.

Was Caldwell linked to ANY other team? With many of the "big name" guys off the board, what was the benefit of hiring Caldwell when no one else was (seemingly) looking at him as an option?

People have said over the last few weeks that we are "close" and just a "good coach away" from being something special. Is Caldwell the coach that is going to push us over the top? I have serious doubts. If Xanders leaves for Miami and we are stuck with Mayhew and company's good ol' boys club (including Caldwell) I expect many more 4-8 win seasons with nothing of note.

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Who even notices stuff like this anymore? It's not 1950.

Exactly, that's why the NFL has done away with the Rooney Rule......oh, wait.

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So we hired a coach with mediocre success, who has made questionable in-game decisions...sounds about right. They were mentioning on 97.1 throughout the day about how it doesn't make sense to make this hire now before seeing how the Super Bowl plays out and potentially interviewing candidates who are linked to teams that are still in the playoffs.

Was Caldwell linked to ANY other team? With many of the "big name" guys off the board, what was the benefit of hiring Caldwell when no one else was (seemingly) looking at him as an option?

People have said over the last few weeks that we are "close" and just a "good coach away" from being something special. Is Caldwell the coach that is going to push us over the top? I have serious doubts. If Xanders leaves for Miami and we are stuck with Mayhew and company's good ol' boys club (including Caldwell) I expect many more 4-8 win seasons with nothing of note.

Seeing as how this is at least the second time it has been mentioned (especially with that gem at the top of the page), Caldwell interviewed for the Titans and Redskins job.

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The timeout was obviously a bad call. That is not to say that it should disqualify him as being a head coach.

Caldwell has shown no reason as to why he should get a head coaching job. Caldwells claims to fame are a 2009 14-2 season given to him by peyton manning, . A superbowl loss in 2010, again he had Manning. A superbowl in as OC after taking over duties.

26–63 in Wake Forrest. 2-14 in his lone NFL season without Manning. The Ravens offense regressed this season to rank 29th. 8th in worst in Offensive penalry yards. Lions were 9th worst this year.

The idea he cuts penalty yards is sort of sillt since the lions about the same as Ravens this year on offense. Ravens also had a much lower 3rd down %.

It is really no wonder no one else wanted this guy. 2 years ago he could even get a OC job.

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The advantage the Colts gained from calling the timeout was much less than what the Jets gained. There was no point in calling the timeout from the Colts perspective.

The Colts' goal in that situation should have been to let the clock run down rather than stop the clock.

I get that it was a mistake. But I am arguing, was it really that big of a mistake? The way it is being portrayed by this board it sounds like one of the biggest blunders. But it doesn't seem that bad. The Jets would have used a timeout if the colts didn't. If neither team calls a timeout the Jets spike it with 20 secs left, still well within FG range.

They should have let the clock run, but either way, that clock was getting stopped. I was under the impression that without Caldwell calling the TO the colts would have won the game. But when you look at it, with or without the timeout, the probability the colts lost was very high. I don't think the TO by Caldwell changed the outcome probability of game at all.

Edited by T&P_Fan

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What? Did you throw that out there hoping nobody would check? Warner's career was dead in the water before Whisenhunt became the coach in Arizona. Under Denny Green, Warner sucked. His stats prove that out.

Denny Green:

2005 (Warner) - 11 TD 9 INT, 2713 passing yards, 2-8 record

2006 (Warner) - 6 TD 5 INT, 1377 yds, 1-4 record

Ken Whisenhunt:

2007 (Warner) - 27 TD 17 INT, 3417 yds, 5-6 record

2008 (Warner) - 30 TD 14 INT, 4583 yds, 9-7 record

2009 (Warner) - 26 TD 14 INT, 3753 yds, 10-5 record

You conveniently used counting stats to support your argument. What about percentage based stats? His yards per attempt was basically flat.

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No one was going to run out and hire caldwell bet the lions. Why not wait and interview some more people. Gase, zimmer, etc????

This is really horrid and worse can not express my hatred at this hire.

This is the boat I was in. It isn't as if Caldwell was linked to anyone else ever this offseason. I would have like to interview at least another 7-8 guys if possible between Greg Roman, Darrell Bevell, Adam Gase, Pete Carmichael Jr., Dan Quinn, Mike Zimmer, Bob Stoops, Jimbo Fischer.

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Scott Linehan and Gunther Cunningham were known quantities...both former head coaches and well respected. These other two guys? Nobody ever heard of them and neither has even been a coordinator in the NFL before. If Caldwell would bring along coaches with NFL coordinator experience, I might give him a chance. As it stands now, I see the Lions window of opportunity closing more rapidly than fans will expect. Calvin has maybe 2 more years at a high level, if his knees hold up. Stafford is on edge of teetering to greatness or obscurity. Suh could end up leaving, and Bush is an injury waiting to happen. If the Lions screwed up this coaching hire, we probably are looking at another rebuild in 3 years.

Now that's some solid reasoning that I can get behind. I agree with everything you've said here.

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Seeing as how this is at least the second time it has been mentioned (especially with that gem at the top of the page), Caldwell interviewed for the Titans and Redskins job.

I didn't see a response to the post at the top of this page. It seems safe to say the Titans weren't going to hire him since they just hired Whisenhunt...is Caldwell such a catch that we needed to hire him right now and not 3 weeks from now?

This just reeks of SOL. But as someone else mentioned, I think the bigger issue is possibly losing Xanders to the Dolphins...contrary to some on this board I value a solid front office more so than the head coach. As was mentioned in this thread, no coach is going to turn a roster that lacks talent to the Super Bowl. I don't think we are at the talent level necessary to be considered a top team, until that is the case I don't think the coach will matter in the least.

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A tale of two organizations.

In 1992, the Pittsburgh Steelers waited until January 21...after the Conference Championship games...to hire the young and energetic Bill Cowher at the age of 35. In 2007, the Pittsburgh Steelers waited until January 22...after the Conference Championship games...to hire the young and energetic Mike Tomlin at the age of 35.

The Detroit Lions hired their last two coaches (Jim Schwartz and Jim Caldwell) on January 15 and 14, respectively.

That's the difference between an organization that is patient and does its due diligence and is not afraid to wait, and one that does not practice due diligence evident by the fact they only had 4 coaches (all retreads) interviewed. The Lions couldn't wait until after the Conference Championships to see if Gase or Quin would be available? Gase, certainly, fits the mold of a Cowher or Tomlin type hire.

By the way, the Steelers have had THREE coaches since 1969...and SIX Super Bowl wins since the 1970s. The Lions have ONE playoff win since 1957...as if it bears repeating.

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This is the boat I was in. It isn't as if Caldwell was linked to anyone else ever this offseason. I would have like to interview at least another 7-8 guys if possible between Greg Roman, Darrell Bevell, Adam Gase, Pete Carmichael Jr., Dan Quinn, Mike Zimmer, Bob Stoops, Jimbo Fischer.

Besides the two teams he interviewed with not named the Lions?

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I didn't see a response to the post at the top of this page. It seems safe to say the Titans weren't going to hire him since they just hired Whisenhunt...is Caldwell such a catch that we needed to hire him right now and not 3 weeks from now?

That's fair, but to say he didn't have any interest is false.

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A million bucks more a year and living in Nashville, hard to pass up, regardless of roster, because that's guaranteed money.

I have a hard time believe that if it was just the money that the Lions wouldn't have up'd their offer a little bit. The Lions are not a team that is tight with money.

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You conveniently used counting stats to support your argument. What about percentage based stats? His yards per attempt was basically flat.

You conveniently used only the percentage based stat that supported your argument, to be fair.


Year Cmp% TD% Int% Y/A Rate
1998 36.4 0 0 3.5 47.2
1999*+ 65.1 8.2 2.6 8.7 109.2
2000* 67.7 6.1 5.2 9.9 98.3
2001*+ 68.7 6.6 4 8.8 101.4
2002 65.5 1.4 5 6.5 67.4
2003 58.5 1.5 1.5 5.6 72.9
2004 62.8 2.2 1.4 7.4 86.5
2005 64.5 2.9 2.4 7.2 85.8
2006 64.3 3.6 3 8.2 89.3
2007 62.3 6 3.8 7.6 89.8
2008* 67.1 5 2.3 7.7 96.9
2009 66.1 5.1 2.7 7.3 93.2

His TD%, INT%, Comp%, and QBR all went up fairly significantly.

Edited by EchO

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I have a hard time believe that if it was just the money that the Lions wouldn't have up'd their offer a little bit. The Lions are not a team that is tight with money.

Rumors are that he likes the area (coached at Vanderbilt so he knows it) and was given more roster control in Tennessee, to go along with the money. Maybe the cap space issue played a part as well?

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Was Warner really revived?

Yeah, he got them to the Super Bowl in 2008, but his numbers seem pretty steady. And it doesn't hurt to have fitz and anquan.

I'm not saying that wiz didn't help Warner improve some, but he wasn't a huge reclamation project either. His numbers under wiz are hardly better than his numbers under Denny green.

I'm not saying it was a reclaim project but Warner was revived in 2007-2009. His rate stats were better in 2008 than they had been for the 5 years prior to Whisenhunt's arrival along with a huge boost in reps/production. Very impressive for a guy his age.

EDIT: anyway you missed my point....I wasn't making a statistical argument, I was talking about why people here wanted Whisenhunt....and I think it was a reasonably well-founded argument based on the facts. He seemed to do a good job getting the most out of good QBs. He also has been accused of jacking guys around too. Wiz seemed like the best fit out of a group of OK candidates, given the work that Stafford needs to get back into form and how critical Stafford is to the success of this team/franchise.

Edited by sabretooth

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That's fair, but to say he didn't have any interest is false.

To be fair, I didn't say there was no interest...I asked if there was any and included the disclaimer (seemingly) as I hadn't heard anything.

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ALL I WANTED WAS A STAFF WITH FREAKING LAZORS ON IT!

Ah... a little humor today in an otherwise pretty bleak evening. Thanks for the lols!

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