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Lions hire Jim Caldwell as head coach

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Bill Lazor seems to be white as well, unsure if that had to do with his hiring.

When one says his last name, are they required to use air quotes?

I feel ... yes, yes they do

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When one says his last name, are they required to use air quotes?

I feel ... yes, yes they do

ALL I WANTED WAS A STAFF WITH FREAKING LAZORS ON IT!

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You forgot his college head coaching record:

Wake Forest:

Year 1 - Terrible

Year 2 - Terrible*

Year 3 - Terrible

Year 4 - Terrible

Year 5 - Mediocre

Year 6 - Terrible

Year 7 - Mediocre

Year 8 - Terrible

* Despite some joker changing his Wikipedia record to 10-1 this year, they were actually 3-8

You're really tying yourself up in knots today. No one cares about Wake Forest in the 90's. We get it, you hate the hire and somehow think him being black has anything to do with it.

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You forgot his college head coaching record:

Wake Forest:

Year 1 - Terrible

Year 2 - Terrible*

Year 3 - Terrible

Year 4 - Terrible

Year 5 - Mediocre

Year 6 - Terrible

Year 7 - Mediocre

Year 8 - Terrible

* Despite some joker changing his Wikipedia record to 10-1 this year, they were actually 3-8

Wake Forest hasn't had a winning coach since 1938-50. Most head coaches win when they have talent and lose when they don't. Talent doesn't want to go to Wake Forest.

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Well, I look at his track record as:

Indy:

Year 1 - Great

Year 2 - Ok

Year 3 - Terrible

Baltimore:

Year 1 - OK

Year 2 - Terrible

This is very depressing. Both trends go down. And really, taking over a strong program in place and holding it together for one year when on the offensive side the guy calling your signals is probably already a better OC than half the guys in NFL press boxes on Sunday? The Lions need a lot more than that.

Even if Caldwell wasn't responsible for the collapse in Indy or Balt, it would only make him a George Seifert at best. The Lions need a Bill Walsh. They need someone who has shown they can build something in a place where it doesn't already exist. That is a different/tougher skill set than coming into an excellent program tweaking and/or maintaining it. I don't see anything in Caldwell's resume to indicate that he shown he has anything more than pure random chance of being the guy who can do that.

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From the article posted in this thread:

.........Caldwell has received glowing endorsements from former Colts colleagues Tony Dungy and Peyton Manning, but he was their handpicked choice to take over for Dungy in 2009, and while the Colts went 14-2 and made it to the Super Bowl during his first year at the helm, things fell apart quickly. Caldwell was a horrific in-game coach, infamously taking a timeout in the following year’s playoff loss to the Jets that beggared belief. The next year, with Manning injured, the Colts fell to 2-14 behind a dismal season from Curtis Painter, leading to Caldwell’s firing after the season. He took over as Baltimore’s offensive coordinator late in the 2012 season and helped lead it to a shocking Super Bowl victory, with the offense — notably, Joe Flacco — taking a huge step forward in the process.

In his first full year at the helm for the Ravens, Caldwell’s offense fell apart; the Ravens were 25th in points scored, 30th in DVOA, and nearly became one of the few teams since the merger to average fewer than 3.0 yards per carry. Flacco, who had put together an astounding 11-touchdown, zero-interception Super Bowl run, threw 22 interceptions in his worst season as a pro. The basis for hiring Caldwell comes down to his two seasons as a head coach with the greatest quarterback in the history of football under center. In a way, he’s not that much different from Whisenhunt, who looked great with Warner and exhibited little else without him. Sure seems like the path to a great head coach travels through finding a great quarterback first.

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Wake Forest hasn't had a winning coach since 1938-50. Most head coaches win when they have talent and lose when they don't. Talent doesn't want to go to Wake Forest.

They had a winning record the year BEFORE he was hired at Wake Forest and a winning record the year AFTER he was fired. His first year at Wake? 2-9. His last year at Wake? 2-9. You could say the same thing about the Vanderbilt coach who just got hired at Penn State.

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Wake Forest hasn't had a winning coach since 1938-50. Most head coaches win when they have talent and lose when they don't. Talent doesn't want to go to Wake Forest.

Jim Grobe at Wake Forest had some pretty good years from 2006-2008.

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Why do we care what his record coaching college some 15 - 20 years ago?

Had he posted an amazing record in college over that timeframe, I doubt it would be cited as an endorsement.

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Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that time out in the Jets game.

Probably the dumbest coaching decisions I've seen. It could be the new Jim Schwartz throwing the challenge flag

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This is very depressing. Both trends go down. And really, taking over a strong program in place and holding it together for one year when on the offensive side the guy calling your signals is probably already a better OC than half the guys in NFL press boxes on Sunday? The Lions need a lot more than that.

Even if Caldwell wasn't responsible for the collapse in Indy or Balt, it would only make him a George Seifert at best. The Lions need a Bill Walsh. They need someone who has shown they can build something in a place where it doesn't already exist. That is a different/tougher skill set than coming into an excellent program tweaking and/or maintaining it. I don't see anything in Caldwell's resume to indicate that he shown he has anything more than pure random chance of being the guy who can do that.

I don't really agree with this line of thinking. Trending downward? The first year in Indy he went to the superbowl, his first year as ravens OC they won the superbowl. Surely the expectations can't be to go to the superbowl every year. I measure regular season success with division titles. In Indy he won 2 in 3 years. The Lions need discipline, they don't need to be built up. The foundation has been laid.

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Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that time out in the Jets game.

Probably the dumbest coaching decisions I've seen. It could be the new Jim Schwartz throwing the challenge flag

That timeout was so stupid the collective IQ of America dropped 3 points on average for having witnessed it.

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You're new to Lions fandom, aren't you?

I know what you are saying but I have been a fan since around 1989 when Barry Sanders(how I miss Barry Sanders and his amazing moves) was a rookie. I actually went to the Lions only playoff victory in their history against an up and coming Cowboys team.

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Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that time out in the Jets game.

Probably the dumbest coaching decisions I've seen. It could be the new Jim Schwartz throwing the challenge flag

The thing I know about clock management in the NFL is that most are really bad at it. The saints just lost because Sean Payton called a play that required Colston to throw the ball across the field with 5 seconds left in the game.

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That timeout was so stupid the collective IQ of America dropped 3 points on average for having witnessed it.

Can you replay it for me? I remember a timeout issue but I cannot remember the specifics.

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I don't really agree with this line of thinking. Trending downward? The first year in Indy he went to the superbowl, his first year as ravens OC they won the superbowl. Surely the expectations can't be to go to the superbowl every year. I measure regular season success with division titles. In Indy he won 2 in 3 years. The Lions need discipline, they don't need to be built up. The foundation has been laid.

Trending downward is not in line with your thinking? The Colts barely made the playoffs in his second year...they needed a late season charge by Peyton to make it. It's never a good sign when a coach's 2nd and 3rd season is worse than his first.

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I don't really agree with this line of thinking. Trending downward? The first year in Indy he went to the superbowl, his first year as ravens OC they won the superbowl. Surely the expectations can't be to go to the superbowl every year. I measure regular season success with division titles. In Indy he won 2 in 3 years. The Lions need discipline, they don't need to be built up. The foundation has been laid.

But I don't agree the Lions don't need to be built up. I go by records, not fan fantasy. This is not a winning team. It does not have any winning history or habit. So that is where we depart.

I don't knock that Caldwell won with a good team, my question is has he shown he can build anything up that wasn't already there? That is not the same talent. I go back into 49er example. When you have a good organization, good philosophy, strong systems in place, then you need a guy who can come in an be disciplined and detail oriented and can see where the marginal improvement can be made, and that is not a nothing set of skills - a George Seifert.

But if nothing is there in the first place it's a whole different thing. Now you need a guy who can create change without destruction, bring into being systems and operating practices that weren't there. This a different skillset - not even necessarily a 'better' one but certainly a different one. All I'm saying is that if you look at Caldwell he has not demonstrated he can build anything - anywhere, ever. Not saying he can't - but saying we have no reason to believe other than our good luck that he can. Basically that again, this was a bad hire in the sense that they did not go get what they really needed. It may turn out to be a successful hire, but it will be luck. Here's hoping.

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I don't understand why so many are making a big deal of his record in his one season as an NFL head coach without Peyton. Similarly, why people didn't want Whisenhunt because his record wasn't good until they had Kurt Warner. Show me an NFL head coach with a consistently good record with a poor QB? Or a consistently bad record with a good QB? NFL coaches can only go as far as their talent, and the skill of a QB would have the highest correlation when it comes to winning, so posting that he only won two games with Kerry Collins/Dan Orlovsky/Curtis Painter isn't really a concern of mine.

Not sure if you are aware, but the hiring of Caldwell does not result in taking over the roster he had at the conclusion of his last head coaching gig.

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Trending downward is not in line with your thinking? The Colts barely made the playoffs in his second year...they needed a late season charge by Peyton to make it. It's never a good sign when a coach's 2nd and 3rd season is worse than his first.

Honestly, it's not really a sign of anything. Schwartz just had a better 2nd and 3rd year and then he completely crapped the bed.

I love when people qualify success: "well yeah he went to the superbowl and won the division the following year but it is only because _______."

The original point is that I would find it hard to say either of his coaching stints can determine any sort of trend. I was especially surprised G2 agreed with it because he is really heady with numbers and context. In this scenario, I think he got it wrong, there is nothing to really trend based on the context.

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vomit.gif

Great.... I want Calwell to do well, but lets be serious, his claim to fame is coaching Manning.

Manning would make anyone look good. Flaco and the rest of the Ravens offense was horrid.

Oh yeah it looks like he is going to hire his crooneys as cordinators. Really the Rutgers OC to be out OC thats embrassing.

I think he will be gone within two years with Mayhew.

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No one was going to run out and hire caldwell bet the lions. Why not wait and interview some more people. Gase, zimmer, etc????

This is really horrid and worse can not express my hatred at this hire.

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Honestly, it's not really a sign of anything. Schwartz just had a better 2nd and 3rd year and then he completely crapped the bed.

I love when people qualify success: "well yeah he went to the superbowl and won the division the following year but it is only because _______."

The original point is that I would find it hard to say either of his coaching stints can determine any sort of trend. I was especially surprised G2 agreed with it because he is really heady with numbers and context. In this scenario, I think he got it wrong, there is nothing to really trend based on the context.

You are still not following. I don't care what his record in Indy was over three 3 yrs. Indy was irrelevant - Dungy built the program at Indy, not Caldwell. I wanted them to hire a coach that had built a winning tradition somewhere that one did not already exist. No matter how you look at Caldwell's NFL tenures you will not see THAT.

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You are still not following. I don't care what his record in Indy was over three 3 yrs. Indy was irrelevant - Dungy built the program at Indy, not Caldwell. I wanted them to hire a coach that had built a winning tradition somewhere that one did not already exist. No matter how you look at Caldwell's NFL tenures you will not see THAT.

So you didn't want Whisenhunt then?

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So you didn't want Whisenhunt then?

Looking at his resume, not that thrilled there either. The hope expressed on the board was that at least Whisenhunt was going to be good for Stafford. On that that basis at least he seemed like a better choice than Caldwell.

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