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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/13/projected-lineups-detroit-lions/

They are doing any updated ranking for every team post draft, Lions should be up in a few days. PFF definitely didn't have a negative view of the Lions, but then you look at the line-up for the 49ers or Seahawks, wowza. Your rankings were understandably slightly more generous.

Man...Carolina's secondary SUCKS.

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Man...Carolina's secondary SUCKS.

I don't know if this is in reference to the conversation yesterday...but that centered around Carolina's secondary last year. They lost their two biggest playmakers and are young.

Melvin White (listed as their #1 CB on that list) was an undrafted rookie last year. He outperformed Slay and was undrafted...just saying.

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I don't know if this is in reference to the conversation yesterday...but that centered around Carolina's secondary last year. They lost their two biggest playmakers and are young.

Melvin White (listed as their #1 CB on that list) was an undrafted rookie last year. He outperformed Slay and was undrafted...just saying.

NO IT DIDN"T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Elite talents:....

....

I'm happy for you that you like all those guys. BTW, where is the newest $16 million dollar man on your list? :wink:

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NO IT DIDN"T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its hard for me not to like the depth of this roster right now. I like that Palmer is now the 4th LB. The DL is very, very deep. CB doesn't have any standouts, but its 7 deep with similar caliber players. Its a better group than what SF has, for example, or what Carolina had last year, and deeper. Interior OL lacked depth, but Swanson helps that out a ton. We have 2-3 RBs we are confident in and we're much deeper in terms of pass catching options.

In terms of depth, only backup QB concerns me. I think we'll bring in another RB of some sort for competition too. Maybe an Ahmad Bradshaw type veteran or someone who gets squeezed off a roster at the end of TC.

Yes, it did. This is what I posted about...this started everything. Is this all a miss-communication because you forgot what you posted? I admitted if you are comparing 2014 Lions CB with Carolina's crop of 2014 CB than I agree, both are below average and not very talented. I though Carolina's defense LAST YEAR, because your quote clearly says "Carolina had last year, and deeper", was much more talented, overall, than the Lions. Mitchell signed a very nice contract with the Steelers and is gone, Munnerlyn signed a nice deal with the Vikings and is gone. Those were two big pieces and the fact they signed long term contracts with franchises that have valued defense should help verify that.

Edited by EchO

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Heh, we've gone back and forth discussing it so much I don't know what I'm saying anymore. We eventually started talking about this year and the FA losses though. Anyways, I'm an idiot. Probably time to retire from this conversation. We've said all we could. Hope our secondary and Ebron both do well. If they don't, we're probably in trouble.

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Heh, we've gone back and forth discussing it so much I don't know what I'm saying anymore. We eventually started talking about this year and the FA losses though. Anyways, I'm an idiot. Probably time to retire from this conversation. We've said all we could. Hope our secondary and Ebron both do well. If they don't, we're probably in trouble.

Haha yeah it went in 20 different directions after that, but yeah that was the statement I took issue with. But we can both agree on your last sentence.

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......

Rookies:

Ebron

Van Noy

Swanson (as backup)

Lawson (as backup)

Reid (as backup)

Webster (developmental)........

Hopefully, TJ Jones will contribute at WR because the Lions need help at the position.

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Some late commentary on the Lions draft:

Under Jim Schwartz, the Detroit Lions relied upon their front four to wreak havoc. Given that the club boasted one of the more talented defensive lines in football, it was a logical strategy.

As NFL offenses have evolved in an effort to get the ball out of the hands of quarterbacks faster, however, it has become critical for defenses to attack from a variety of angles. General manager Martin Mayhew and head coach Jim Caldwell recognized this and traded up five spots in the second round to land Van Noy, whose Swiss Army Knife-like versatility could land him a featured role in defensive coordinator Teryl Austin's attacking defense.

Austin's aggressive scheme calls for linebackers (and even defensive backs) to rush the quarterback. It is a strategy that can be quite effective -- if complemented with instinctive and fluid athletes.

The scheme suits Van Noy (but not necessarily incumbent starting strongside linebacker Ashlee Palmer) well. Van Noy starred off the edge for BYU, racking up 62 tackles for loss (including 26 sacks). He is a natural pass rusher whose quickness and flexibility help him elude blockers on his way to the quarterback and he has a burst to close, which helped him rack up an impressive 11 forced fumbles over his career.

More about the other picks later in the article.

Finding the Fits: Versatility key to featured role for Lions' Van Noy - CBSSports.com

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This is how I would have picked obviously in hindsight at the Lions original picks.

1st: Calvin Pryor (S)

2nd: Jace Amaro (TE)

3rd: Donte Moncrief (WR)

4th A: Pierre Desir (CB)

4th B: Prince Shembo (OLB)/Corey Linsley ©

4th C: Caraun Reid (DT)

6th: Zach Moore (DE)

7th: Jeff Janis (WR)

7th(trade back into)/UDFA: Nate Freese (K)

Not as great of value as our draft up top, but IMO this draft has the possibility for more starters immediately and in the long run. The rationale would be Johnson and Moncrief would be the deep threats, Tate and Amaro the more possession guys and Jeff Janis as a rotational slot guy. I think Calvin Pryor and Desir could produce next year...Shembo, Reid, and Moore would all be nice project picks who could be a nice surprise. Since I didn't include the move to trade up there was no 5th round pick but I kept the 4th round pick. I know it isn't the popular route but I don't mind trading a bit of value to fit needs and I don't think any of these picks are extreme reaches outside of Pryor who I think is going to prove worthy of a #10 pick and will be seen as a value at #18. Time will tell.

Just a fun bump before the first game of the season. Every one of these guys made their team's 53 man roster, 5 are opening day starters with all of them slated to get playing time. This would have been a draft class I could have gotten excited about. Hopefully Corey Linsley doesn't get eaten alive tonight starting against the Seahawks.

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Just a fun bump before the first game of the season. Every one of these guys made their team's 53 man roster, 5 are opening day starters with all of them slated to get playing time. This would have been a draft class I could have gotten excited about. Hopefully Corey Linsley doesn't get eaten alive tonight starting against the Seahawks.

Only one of these players would start on our roster - Pryor.

Of our draft class, only one player didn't make the roster - and that one is due to injury - TJ Jones, with two underdrafted free agents. That should be worthy of getting excited about.

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Only one of these players would start on our roster - Pryor.

Of our draft class' date=' only one player didn't make the roster - and that one is due to injury - TJ Jones, with two underdrafted free agents. That should be worthy of getting excited about.[/quote']

This is demonstrably false. Freese would also. lol

I also think Jace Amaro would start in that I think the Lions will be going with quite a few two-TE sets and think it isn't right to consider Pettigrew the true "starter" considering he has been talked about as primarily a blocking TE (I would consider Ebron a starter also, FTR). Prince Shembo is scheduled to start with the Falcons, I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that he would make a run at Whitehead for the starting spot, it is tough to evaluate the Whitehead vs. Shembo comparison because they weren't in the same camp and it's tough to compare preseason stats.

I don't see many players to get excited about for this year. Van Noy is out at least 7 to 8 games not his fault but most likely won't make much of an impact, Ebron looks alright but to be fair has had the same preseason timeline as Amaro (struggled early in training camp, figured some things out, had a decent preseason), Swanson isn't going to start and looks to be (as of now) on par with what Linsley is doing in Green Bay, Lawson is listed as our 5th CB behind Cassius Vaughn (woof), Webster is listed as our 5th DE, I like Reid and would have made that pick also, and as you mentioned Jones didn't make the roster. I don't think Webster, Lawson, Reid (even though I like him), or Swanson will get many snaps, nor should they.

But we'll see, the games should tell us a lot. I just made an effort to keep track of these guys I would have selected and am happy with how they look so far.

Edit:

And for the record, even if Pryor was the only true starter (outside of Freese), by your rationale that would still be one more starter than the Lions got out of their draft. I don't see Ebron putting up significantly better numbers than Amaro, at least not this year...and I think this year may be the Lions best shot to win.

Edited by EchO

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This is demonstrably false. Freese would also. lol

I also think Jace Amaro would start in that I think the Lions will be going with quite a few two-TE sets and think it isn't right to consider Pettigrew the true "starter" considering he has been talked about as primarily a blocking TE (I would consider Ebron a starter also, FTR). Prince Shembo is scheduled to start with the Falcons, I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that he would make a run at Whitehead for the starting spot, it is tough to evaluate the Whitehead vs. Shembo comparison because they weren't in the same camp and it's tough to compare preseason stats.

I don't see many players to get excited about for this year. Van Noy is out at least 7 to 8 games not his fault but most likely won't make much of an impact, Ebron looks alright but to be fair has had the same preseason timeline as Amaro (struggled early in training camp, figured some things out, had a decent preseason), Swanson isn't going to start and looks to be (as of now) on par with what Linsley is doing in Green Bay, Lawson is listed as our 5th CB behind Cassius Vaughn (woof), Webster is listed as our 5th DE, I like Reid and would have made that pick also, and as you mentioned Jones didn't make the roster. I don't think Webster, Lawson, Reid (even though I like him), or Swanson will get many snaps, nor should they.

But we'll see, the games should tell us a lot. I just made an effort to keep track of these guys I would have selected and am happy with how they look so far.

Edit:

And for the record, even if Pryor was the only true starter (outside of Freese), by your rationale that would still be one more starter than the Lions got out of their draft. I don't see Ebron putting up significantly better numbers than Amaro, at least not this year...and I think this year may be the Lions best shot to win.

I think Ebron has a lot more versatility than Amaro, with Amaro offering little that Fauria doesn't bring to the table (especially after his strong offseason.)

I think the biggest impact rookie will actually end up being Webster the season is over.

I'm also stoked for Couplin. Im excited to see what he is able to do if he starts on Monday.

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Hopefully Corey Linsley doesn't get eaten alive tonight starting against the Seahawks.

Eaten alive.

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Eaten alive.

He had the one bad snap but I honestly don't think he played that poorly. First NFL game in his rookie year against the best defense in the NFL. If I remember correctly all the sacks came from the outside. Looks like he could have been better in rush blocking but I'll have to watch the game again to see whose fault it was that the running game was so stagnant. Does PFF provide game-by-game statistics for OL?

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He had the one bad snap but I honestly don't think he played that poorly. First NFL game in his rookie year against the best defense in the NFL. If I remember correctly all the sacks came from the outside. Looks like he could have been better in rush blocking but I'll have to watch the game again to see whose fault it was that the running game was so stagnant. Does PFF provide game-by-game statistics for OL?

I will admit that I was antagonizing a bit. But we have gone back and forth for months now that it's nice to have some real football to talk about.

I watched him closely last night only because you mentioned him. Besides the one bad snap he didn't really look out of place. GB in general looked a little out of place though. Seattle at home...tough sledding.

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I think Ebron has a lot more versatility than Amaro' date=' with Amaro offering little that Fauria doesn't bring to the table (especially after his strong offseason.)

I think the biggest impact rookie will actually end up being Webster the season is over.

I'm also stoked for Couplin. Im excited to see what he is able to do if he starts on Monday.[/quote']

Both Ebron and Amaro are the "bigger WR, catch first" type-TE so I guess I see them playing a very similar role. Ebron is a bit faster and more athletic, Amaro is bigger and can jump higher. I agree that Fauria is a similar player in terms of build, I think Amaro will be a better receiver inside the 20's than Fauria...but with all that said I am a big Fauria fan. The fact that I like Fauria is also a reason why I think it was extremely unnecessary to sign Pettigrew AND draft a TE at #10.

In my opinion, (and we will know more as the season plays out) I think we could have had above average production from the TE position with Amaro and Fauria as the main pass catching TE and someone cheap like Ed Dickson as the blocking first TE role that Pettigrew is seemingly going to play with the Lions. With the money and draft picks saved we could have gotten Calvin Pryor (who Lions fans would drool over due to his huge hits) AND a guy like Captain Munnerlyn who would come in and be our #1 CB.

We will see what Webster is able to accomplish, I think both he and Zach Moore could have decent seasons production wise. I don't expect much from Couplin, anything he gives would be a nice surprise, either way if we could have had Pryor, I think he would have undoubtedly have been the way to go.

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I will admit that I was antagonizing a bit. But we have gone back and forth for months now that it's nice to have some real football to talk about.

I watched him closely last night only because you mentioned him. Besides the one bad snap he didn't really look out of place. GB in general looked a little out of place though. Seattle at home...tough sledding.

Throughout most of the first half I kept thinking, "wow these are two really, really good teams." But by the start of the 4th quarter I was left thinking..."how is anyone supposed to win in Seattle?" I think Green Bay will end up being a good team this year with double digit wins easy, and they were still no match for Seattle at home. They are such a good team, fun to watch.

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Throughout most of the first half I kept thinking, "wow these are two really, really good teams." But by the start of the 4th quarter I was left thinking..."how is anyone supposed to win in Seattle?" I think Green Bay will end up being a good team this year with double digit wins easy, and they were still no match for Seattle at home. They are such a good team, fun to watch.

I still keep thinking GB will be a 500 team. MAYBE 9 wins this year. Their defense is not good minus Matthews.

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I still keep thinking GB will be a 500 team. MAYBE 9 wins this year. Their defense is not good minus Matthews.

If there defense isn't good except for Matthews...what is ours?

They run a 3-4 so it is hard to compare the DL, but they for sure have us beat in the secondary. Williams is better than Mathis, Shields is better than Slay, Hayward is better than Bentley, Burnett is better than Ihedigbo/Couplin, I think Clinton-Dix looked decent in his first game, I expect him to have production similar to Quin.

Matthews is elite, Jones is an above average 3 down linebacker. Their biggest issues will probably be the front 3 (especially against the run), seeing if Hawk can do anything, and if Perry can ever figure it out an be worthy of his 1st round pick.

There defense is far from perfect, but they have a solid secondary, and decent linebackers. We, on the other hand, have a solid defensive line, decent linebackers, and a weak secondary. I would personally rather have the secondary on lock and force teams to get creative in their run game than be stout against the run but allow teams to come back late in games via the pass (which happened many times last year).

One thing I know for sure, the short field that Seattle kept getting didn't help their defense one bit. It should be exciting to see the Lions face off against the Packers.

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If there defense isn't good except for Matthews...what is ours?

They run a 3-4 so it is hard to compare the DL, but they for sure have us beat in the secondary. Williams is better than Mathis, Shields is better than Slay, Hayward is better than Bentley, Burnett is better than Ihedigbo/Couplin, I think Clinton-Dix looked decent in his first game, I expect him to have production similar to Quin.

Matthews is elite, Jones is an above average 3 down linebacker. Their biggest issues will probably be the front 3 (especially against the run), seeing if Hawk can do anything, and if Perry can ever figure it out an be worthy of his 1st round pick.

There defense is far from perfect, but they have a solid secondary, and decent linebackers. We, on the other hand, have a solid defensive line, decent linebackers, and a weak secondary. I would personally rather have the secondary on lock and force teams to get creative in their run game than be stout against the run but allow teams to come back late in games via the pass (which happened many times last year).

One thing I know for sure, the short field that Seattle kept getting didn't help their defense one bit. It should be exciting to see the Lions face off against the Packers.

Ours? I have no idea. Hopefully better than GB's because they are not that good. And it is not only about the players on the field....football is the one sport I think coaching effects the outcome of the game to a pretty big degree. Call the right play 80% of the time and you could have a 'bad on paper defense' look good and vice versa.

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If there defense isn't good except for Matthews...what is ours?

They run a 3-4 so it is hard to compare the DL, but they for sure have us beat in the secondary. Williams is better than Mathis, Shields is better than Slay, Hayward is better than Bentley, Burnett is better than Ihedigbo/Couplin, I think Clinton-Dix looked decent in his first game, I expect him to have production similar to Quin.

Matthews is elite, Jones is an above average 3 down linebacker. Their biggest issues will probably be the front 3 (especially against the run), seeing if Hawk can do anything, and if Perry can ever figure it out an be worthy of his 1st round pick.

There defense is far from perfect, but they have a solid secondary, and decent linebackers. We, on the other hand, have a solid defensive line, decent linebackers, and a weak secondary. I would personally rather have the secondary on lock and force teams to get creative in their run game than be stout against the run but allow teams to come back late in games via the pass (which happened many times last year).

One thing I know for sure, the short field that Seattle kept getting didn't help their defense one bit. It should be exciting to see the Lions face off against the Packers.

When I tried to use such reasoning about Detroit's secondary compared to a team like Carolina, you shredded me saying I should go off of results. Now our defense, ranked 16th in yards, 15th in ppg and 11th by PFF is crap compared to GB's, which ranked 25th, 24th(tied) and 25th? Ha Ha did look pretty impressive missing tackles the other night though and there's 34 year old Peppers.............

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When I tried to use such reasoning about Detroit's secondary compared to a team like Carolina, you shredded me saying I should go off of results. Now our defense, ranked 16th in yards, 15th in ppg and 11th by PFF is crap compared to GB's, which ranked 25th, 24th(tied) and 25th? Ha Ha did look pretty impressive missing tackles the other night though and there's 34 year old Peppers.............

If I recall correctly, I agreed with your direct comparison to THIS year's Carolina team. Let me ask you a question, out of the direct comparisons that I listed which one do you think is unfair? Right now as of September 6th can you tell me honestly that you wouldn't want Shields over Slay? Or Williams over Mathis? Or Burnett over Ihedigbo/Couplin to help us win this year?

Team ranking aside, how did those individual players look as compared to ours? I'm just trying to figure out what part of my post you find issue with? That I said Ha-Ha looked "decent"? And I mentioned how the biggest issue will be their front 3 although I do recall seeing Peppers line up as an OLB but when did I mention Peppers as a strength?

If you can recall correctly, I also included the secondaries counting stats when I compared them to Carolina. Well out of the guys in the secondary I compared, GB combined for 7 INT, 2 forced fumbled, 36 PD, 2.5 sacks as compared to Detroits' unit combining for 0 INT, 0 FF, 27 PD, 0 sacks. I think the reason GB's numbers are so bad in because their pass rush was so poor last year, especially with Matthews gone for a third of the season.

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If I recall correctly, I agreed with your direct comparison to THIS year's Carolina team. Let me ask you a question, out of the direct comparisons that I listed which one do you think is unfair? Right now as of September 6th can you tell me honestly that you wouldn't want Shields over Slay? Or Williams over Mathis? Or Burnett over Ihedigbo/Couplin to help us win this year?

Team ranking aside, how did those individual players look as compared to ours? I'm just trying to figure out what part of my post you find issue with? That I said Ha-Ha looked "decent"? And I mentioned how the biggest issue will be their front 3 although I do recall seeing Peppers line up as an OLB but when did I mention Peppers as a strength?

If you can recall correctly, I also included the secondaries counting stats when I compared them to Carolina. Well out of the guys in the secondary I compared, GB combined for 7 INT, 2 forced fumbled, 36 PD, 2.5 sacks as compared to Detroits' unit combining for 0 INT, 0 FF, 27 PD, 0 sacks. I think the reason GB's numbers are so bad in because their pass rush was so poor last year, especially with Matthews gone for a third of the season.

I might agree with you on the comparisons,but again, you have always taken me to task for talking about names and talent instead of production. Now in this instance where it serves the purpose of being anti-Lions, it seems to be ok. I don't understand.

GB had all of those guys last year minus HaHa, who didn't look very good, and they let up basically the exact same amount of passing yards per game as us and had a much worse defense. They haven't really added much and they lost BJ Raji for the year. I don't see why you expect them to have such a respectable defense and us not to, based on PRODUCTION, as you like to say

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