Jump to content

CapitalTigers

Joba Chamberlain to sign 1 year 2.5 million with Tigers

Recommended Posts

The bullpen might be okay, but it might also be epically bad. The Tigers will be minus their three most reliable relievers in 2013 (Benoit, Smily, and Veras) and intend to give more prominent roles to people who were either unreliable or injured in 2013 (Rondon, AlAl, Coke, Chamberlain) or unknown performers (Krol, Putkonen, Ortega, tiger337, whatever). Nathan's probably still got some gas in his tank (his was a good signing), but getting to him in the ninth might be an adventure. The Tigers may lose a mess of games in the sixth-eigth innings in 2014.

In any case, DD's "retooling" of the bullpen this offseason fits his MO, which is to spend big bucks on one guy (Valverde a few years ago, Benoit the year after, now Nathan) and then nickle and dime the other six, so that when the playoffs arrive, the Tigers go into them with one of the weakest bullpens of all the teams still playing. And, predictably, it costs them, as they're eventually "outbullpened" by the likes of Texas, or San Fransisco, or Boston.

Place me among those who are not expecting any additional "reliable" arms between now and 7/31 or Corey Knebel's and/or Melvin Mercedes' callups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's to like? He's fat. He's arrogant. He acts like a fool. He sucks at pitching. He has a drinking problem. He used to play for the Yankees.

All forgiven, he's a Tiger now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeez, on the radio - this is the end of the Tigers.

But hold on here for a second...

Joba started out great........when did it start going south for him? in 2009. Did something happen with the Yankees in 2009? Oh yeah, they moved into a launching pad. Look, pitching at Yankee Stadium will traumatize any pitcher. Fly balls become doubles off the walls or home runs there. Then when that happens pitchers stop challenging hitters and throw fewer strikes. All of this happened to Chamberlain.........in New York, where if you fart on the mound people turn on you.

I don't think this is a great move at all. This is a low-risk move. It's only 2.5 base salary and if it doesn't work - he'll be gone, simple as that. It may turn his career around - I have my doubts about that, but stranger things have happened. It's a potential low-risk, high-reward move, so no big deal. Move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What's to like? He's fat. He's arrogant. He acts like a fool. He sucks at pitching. He has a drinking problem. He used to play for the Yankees.

The same can be said for about 3/4th of this board except the last part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeez, on the radio - this is the end of the Tigers.

But hold on here for a second...

Joba started out great........when did it start going south for him? in 2009. Did something happen with the Yankees in 2009? Oh yeah, they moved into a launching pad. Look, pitching at Yankee Stadium will traumatize any pitcher. Fly balls become doubles off the walls or home runs there. Then when that happens pitchers stop challenging hitters and throw fewer strikes. All of this happened to Chamberlain.........in New York, where if you fart on the mound people turn on you.

I don't think this is a great move at all. This is a low-risk move. It's only 2.5 base salary and if it doesn't work - he'll be gone, simple as that. It may turn his career around - I have my doubts about that, but stranger things have happened. It's a potential low-risk, high-reward move, so no big deal. Move on.

Over the last three years, he's walked more hitters on the road than at home, just over one extra batter per 9 IP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

~3.40 xFIP/FIP, ~3.50 ERA as a reliever. Comes cheap because of last season, where his peripheral numbers were pretty bad, but possibly an outlier.

$2M or so is what guys like this cost. For people that want to do bullpens like the Rays, this is as much of a Rays signing as you're gonna get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With Nathan and Rondon I think the bullpen will be pretty good. Can't be worse than last year.

The bullpen wasn't good but Benoit and Smyly were oustanding.

I think:

Nathan = Benoit

Krol/Coke < Smyly

Chamberlain ?? Veras

The other main guys could step up (Rondon/AA) or blow up.

Overall this bullpen is worse than it was last year, and it wasn't good last year. I would prefer to see another LH acquired...there are some good ones available, but the Tigers don't seem to be interested. We'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The bullpen wasn't good but Benoit and Smyly were oustanding.

I think:

Nathan = Benoit

Krol/Coke < Smyly

Chamberlain ?? Veras

The other main guys could step up (Rondon/AA) or blow up.

Overall this bullpen is worse than it was last year, and it wasn't good last year. I would prefer to see another LH acquired...there are some good ones available, but the Tigers don't seem to be interested. We'll see.

If Rondon is healthy for the entire season, the pen should be just as effective as last year. Rondon was really good in his final stint up and really missed in the playoffs. Smyly was a good pitcher but being used as a LOOGY late last season canceled that out...Krol/Coke should be able to fill that role.

That said, I'd like to see one more guy signed in this $3M or so range. We lost a lot of games last year in extra innings throwing our weak underbelly out there. We'll probably need to win some of those this year, as we mightn't be as dominant in other areas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry Mr. Cioe- just venting here....

I understood that Veras was supposed to make $4M for 2014 because of his contract option having some add in's so the Tigers declined him.

My mistake was thinking that using $4M of Veras' money (Not counting the further savings of Benoit & Dotel not being resigned either...) and an additional $1.25M the Tigers could have gotten say,....Joe Smith for 2015+, but hey, used in the right situations, Joba Chamberlain will be equal to the Tigers needs I'm totally sure.

Veras was okay but to me every curve he threw up there just screamed HIT ME. It was obviously a somewhat effective pitch but I think if he loses just a tick with the FB velocity or control, he's going to be back where he was before last season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If Rondon is healthy for the entire season, the pen should be just as effective as last year. Rondon was really good in his final stint up and really missed in the playoffs. Smyly was a good pitcher but being used as a LOOGY late last season canceled that out...Krol/Coke should be able to fill that role.

Just as effective as last year isn't going to cut it....this bullpen cost the team expected wins last year. We're hovering around 90+ wins right now with a nominal bullpen performance. Last year was worse than nominal. We need to improve the bullpen substantially if that is the case.

That said, I'd like to see one more guy signed in this $3M or so range. We lost a lot of games last year in extra innings throwing our weak underbelly out there. We'll probably need to win some of those this year, as we mightn't be as dominant in other areas.

Well I agree with this, although I'm ambivalent about the $$ needed, I just want to see a quality arm added.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just as effective as last year isn't going to cut it....this bullpen cost the team expected wins last year. We're hovering around 90+ wins right now with a nominal bullpen performance. Last year was worse than nominal. We need to improve the bullpen substantially if that is the case.

Well I agree with this, although I'm ambivalent about the $$ needed, I just want to see a quality arm added.

Well you said it was going to be worse, you didn't say anything about being better :classic:

The quality is down at this point with Smyly moving to the rotation, but the depth could be better. The key will be Rondon, if he gives us a full season, that takes care of the role he and Veras combined to fill in 2013. Then you add Krol and Joba, lose Smyly, get a bounceback from Coke, hope for 1 of Crosby or Putkonen to be there.....that's enough extra guys there that it could work. 1 low-risk guy tho would be great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well you said it was going to be worse, you didn't say anything about being better :classic:

The quality is down at this point with Smyly moving to the rotation, but the depth could be better. The key will be Rondon, if he gives us a full season, that takes care of the role he and Veras combined to fill in 2013. Then you add Krol and Joba, lose Smyly, get a bounceback from Coke, hope for 1 of Crosby or Putkonen to be there.....that's enough extra guys there that it could work. 1 low-risk guy tho would be great.

There is more depth I think....Crosby could be an X factor. Several guys who were on the team last year are going to need to provide 60+ quality innings in addition to a quality addition IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is more depth I think....Crosby could be an X factor. Several guys who were on the team last year are going to need to provide 60+ quality innings in addition to a quality addition IMHO.

What we have is just a collection of wildcards - this group could be anything from great - Rondon, AA and Coke fly right and Puktonen takes a step toward Grilli II, or it could be a complete disaster collapse - Nathan gets old/hurt, AA can't locate the FB, Rondon blows his elbow. All these guys have erratic performance and/or health history and thus very high projection uncertainties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The bullpen might be okay, but it might also be epically bad. The Tigers will be minus their three most reliable relievers in 2013 (Benoit, Smily, and Veras) and intend to give more prominent roles to people who were either unreliable or injured in 2013 (Rondon, AlAl, Coke, Chamberlain) or unknown performers (Krol, Putkonen, Ortega, tiger337, whatever). Nathan's probably still got some gas in his tank (his was a good signing), but getting to him in the ninth might be an adventure. The Tigers may lose a mess of games in the sixth-eigth innings in 2014.

In any case, DD's "retooling" of the bullpen this offseason fits his MO, which is to spend big bucks on one guy (Valverde a few years ago, Benoit the year after, now Nathan) and then nickle and dime the other six, so that when the playoffs arrive, the Tigers go into them with one of the weakest bullpens of all the teams still playing. And, predictably, it costs them, as they're eventually "outbullpened" by the likes of Texas, or San Fransisco, or Boston.

Place me among those who are not expecting any additional "reliable" arms between now and 7/31 or Corey Knebel's and/or Melvin Mercedes' callups.

Wow, a Rob Jones sighting!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how much success this newly formed bullpen will have, but I am looking forward to the 8th & 9th innings not taking an hour to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The emotional and irrational side of me hates this deal because Chamberlain seems to be a bit of an *** clown.

The rational and business side of me,..... agrees with the emotional and irrational side of me.

He has to be the leading candidate for whipping boy heading into camp, yes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Over the last three years, he's walked more hitters on the road than at home, just over one extra batter per 9 IP.

But I wonder if "shell shock" may play into that. He gets used to throwing off the plate at home and it just carries over on the road.

Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. It's low risk. If it doesn't work, they won't have to keep him around to justify his salary.

This has been a tough offseason so far, but this was eventually going to happen one of these years........there had to be a salary wall somewhere down the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Over the last three years, he's walked more hitters on the road than at home, just over one extra batter per 9 IP.
But I wonder if "shell shock" may play into that. He gets used to throwing off the plate at home and it just carries over on the road.

Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. It's low risk. If it doesn't work, they won't have to keep him around to justify his salary.

This has been a tough offseason so far, but this was eventually going to happen one of these years........there had to be a salary wall somewhere down the road.

He also now has a new pitching coach. Maybe Jones will find a flaw and Joba can locate his fastball. His 94 MPH FB could be a good weapon, IF he can locate it. Coming out of the BP, walks are the very last thing a RP can do. It leads to big innings. I'm hoping for the best and I also hope Ausmus is smart enough not to let him lose any games for us. Start him out in low leverage situations and see what he has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hearing a lot of "Joba is a fat clown." We should be used to it after 3+ seasons of Valverde.

As others have said, the key to the BP is Rondon. Watching him near the end of the season was very exciting. If he can stay healthy -- which the FO seems to believe/are counting on -- I believe he will be an impact setup man from day 1.

I still hope DD brings in another arm. Veras was not great and would have cost 4 mil. Hoping DD thinks he can use that 4 mil to sign 2 wildcards. Maybe another guy in the 1-2M range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Respectfully, I don't get the argument that signing Joba constitutes "low risk." To me, the risk is enormous. If he's bad, and the other Joba-like characters in the bullpen (Coke, AlAl, Rondon ... nearly all of them) are also bad, which many of them were at times during 2013, then the season blows up on the Tigers. Good SP outings will be wasted, frustrating losses in the late innings take place at a disproportionately high rate, the team ends on the wrong side of 7-5 games or extra inning contests, and so on. The team is risking all that. Somehow "low risk" has become synonymous with "cheap." Yet cheap often means "not so good," and if you've got bunch of players like that (as I think the Tigers have with the bullpen they've got today), you're risking a lot of trouble. Joba is low risk only if there is someone who would be palpably better than him for the role he might assume. I don't see that someone on the Tigers right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...