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Doug Fister Traded to the Nationals

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Wow...I wonder how many times that scout saw Porcello and Fister in 2013 because I find that hard to reconcile with what I saw on the field. RP does do these weird occasional total blow-ups that really mess up his aggregate stats but overall appeared to be a more solid pitcher than Fister most his outings last season and he is younger, throws harder and has an upward performance trend. No matter how much you like Fister the idea he is worth *much* more than Porcello to anyone makes no sense to me.

Porcello's inability to pitch into the 7th (much less beyond) is a significant difference between the two pitchers that shouldn't be overlooked. It's not just the blowup innings that hurt RP.

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Porcello's inability to pitch into the 7th (much less beyond) is a significant difference between the two pitchers that shouldn't be overlooked. It's not just the blowup innings that hurt RP.

I agree. I thought Fister was clearly better. Porcello is still intriguing and might have better potential but he continues to not pitch deep into games and he also is bad at stranding base runners every year.

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I agree. I thought Fister was clearly better. Porcello is still intriguing and might have better potential but he continues to not pitch deep into games and he also is bad at stranding base runners every year.

2014 has to be the season that Porcello finds a way to get past 75 pitches. Hopefully another season of experience plus a better infield defense helps him overcome that barrier. I think it is reasonable to expect that, although there is some risk that it just doesn't come to fruition.

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Porcello improved last year from pitch 76 and on. The middle innings still gave him trouble, but the improvements with higher pitch counts could be a sign his arm strength is getting better. I think the bigger issue is his struggles against lefties and with men on base. I'm still not really high on him- although I think he profiles as a league average starter who can eat some innings now that he has a decent D behind him and that's nothing to scoff at.

The other possibility is that the Tigers have Ray, Crawford, Thompson and VerHagen now as decent to good starting pitching prospects and a couple other decent prospects that could help soon at the MLB level in Perez, Fields, Collins and Suarez. If neither Porcello or Smyly end up looking like capable starters for the playoffs, they have more depth and ammo to pull off an acquisition of another good starter in a trade now like they did with Sanchez and Fister.

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So we basically moved Prince Fielder and Doug Fister and in return we got Joe Nathan, Ian Kinsler, Steve Lombardozzi,Ian Krol, and Robbie Ray. Heck, it still looks bad to me. That back end looks like roster filler. Kinda like a Randy Smith trade.

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So we basically moved Prince Fielder and a package of Fernando Martinez, Charlie Furbush and Casper Wells and in return we got Joe Nathan, Ian Kinsler, Steve Lombardozzi,Ian Krol, and Robbie Ray. Heck, it still looks bad to me. That back end looks like roster filler. Kinda like a Randy Smith trade.

Here, I fixed that for you. I don't know why everyone wants to look at this as a package deal while assuming that the offseason is over.

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Walt, we got Martinez back, so how do you plan to factor in that to your algorithm? In the least you have to put him on both side of the trade so that it cancels each other out.

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Walt, we got Martinez back, so how do you plan to factor in that to your algorithm? In the least you have to put him on both side of the trade so that it cancels each other out.

Lol, that was a separate deal.

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Keith Law claims he talked to executives who were shocked Fister brought such a small return and wished they were given a chance to top the Washington offer. Don't like Law but this just reinforces the frustration. And it also speaks to the theory that Dombrowski must think very highly of Ray compared to the rest of baseball. Given that Ray is a lefty, power, arm and Dombrowksi's history with targeting power arms, this is the only explanation.

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Keith Law claims he talked to executives who were shocked Fister brought such a small return and wished they were given a chance to top the Washington offer. Don't like Law but this just reinforces the frustration. And it also speaks to the theory that Dombrowski must think very highly of Ray compared to the rest of baseball. Given that Ray is a lefty, power, arm and Dombrowksi's history with targeting power arms, this is the only explanation.

Every hour I somehow hate this trade even more

All I want is to know Dombrowski's reasoning for this awful move

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Keith Law claims he talked to executives who were shocked Fister brought such a small return and wished they were given a chance to top the Washington offer. Don't like Law but this just reinforces the frustration. And it also speaks to the theory that Dombrowski must think very highly of Ray compared to the rest of baseball. Given that Ray is a lefty, power, arm and Dombrowksi's history with targeting power arms, this is the only explanation.

Good find. We have been going circles around this topic for a day now and this is what many of us suspected. You don't make a trade in MLB that gets panned by everybody......I mean where there is smoke there is usually fire.

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Porcello's inability to pitch into the 7th (much less beyond) is a significant difference between the two pitchers that shouldn't be overlooked. It's not just the blowup innings that hurt RP.

Porcello averaged 96 pitches per start, Fister 105 and Rick is 5 years younger? If he adds three pitches per start per year his stamina will exceed Fisters. But more importantly, last year the depth to which he actually carried his velocity into games increased much more than his actual pitch counts. Prior to last year RP often lost his FB by 70 pitches. Last year he often had one to 90. Another year of that kind of improvement and he will be going as deep as Fister. They key to Porcello's value is in his performance trajectory. I wouldn't argue if someone wants to consider Fister the higher value player based on a static analysis. But depending on what you project for the two of them, the comparison can change substantially. Of course some feel that because of his long frame Fister hasn't peaked yet either - so it's all in how you choose to read the tea leaves.

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Every hour I somehow hate this trade even more

All I want is to know Dombrowski's reasoning for this awful move

You just responded to the reasoning, for all intents and purposes, you are never really going to get more than that. DD had an unusually high regard for Ray, almost certainly because he is left handed, a power arm, and carries the k/9 that he covets (as well as the customary high bb/9 we tend to see in our own prospects). And because of that he focused on acquiring Ray and may not have gotten the best package available. End of story.

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DD is a good GM overall. But his trading of players has always bothered me. He always seems to toss in the extra prospect when the other team needs him.....and never holds out for a prospect tossed in our way. And he overvalues replacement level players like Lombardozzi, Coke, Delmon Young, Jacque Jones.

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Here, I fixed that for you. I don't know why everyone wants to look at this as a package deal while assuming that the offseason is over.

I agree the trades and signings shouldn't be viewed as a package deal. The Fister trade was bad regardless of what we do/did with the extra $7 million. We could have shed that salary and still received a better package in return.

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I agree the trades and signings shouldn't be viewed as a package deal. The Fister trade was bad regardless of what we do/did with the extra $7 million. We could have shed that salary and still received a better package in return.

I am not defending the trade, but I haven't yet been hit in the head by some falling sky, and think it is silly to twist oneself in knots trying to make it look worse.

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