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Doug Fister Traded to the Nationals

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I will say that Ray looks pretty nice. But it's highly unlikely he will ever come close to being Fister.

I think it's way too soon to say whether he'll be close to Fister or not...

I wonder if Doug Fister thought he'd become Doug Fister when he came up in the Mariners system... I mean, his minor league numbers weren't exactly impressive, but he grew into a fine pitcher. I'm sure Ray will have that same opportunity here.

I'm not happy with how this played out. But the hyperbole is just a bit too much. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a method

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If only they had more time this offseason to fill those holes.

You do realize that they added to their barren minor league system, right? That's where the surplus value went. They couldn't keep ignoring that.

They're trying to win the ****ing world series! **** the damn farm system.

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I love smyly but I don't see him coming close to the 4 WAR fister is projected for. Or even 3.5.

Apparently fister is projected to provide 4 war next season? Got a source for that?

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It's going to come down to Ray- would people feel better if he was rated as a top 15 prospect by the scouting media? Either the prospect community is way off in their value of Ray or the Tigers are way off.

Krol will probably be a fine piece in the bullpen-his numbers looked really good in the minors. Utility guy is a utility guy who may or may not get better. Still, they are probably a win or two worse now for 2014 having made this move.

Payroll should be about $143 million now and they could still end up cutting Coke and Kelly to save another $2 million. Technically, he's right they won't cut payroll if they sign a closer like Wilson to a $10 million deal- that would put them right at their payroll from last year. The team will likely be worse if that's the only other move they do, though.

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Everyone saying fister should have gotten more are not looking at it from Washington's point of view. If they think he's clearing space for something then why help him? You know he needs to move him to make his other move. Washington doesn't have to do anything. And remember better players cost more. If the goal is to cut costs then you are limited.

This is what I've been thinking too. If everybody knows you're trying to get rid of an asset, the value of the asset will plummet.

I'm not happy or excited about this trade, but I think the naysayers doth protest too much. I also think people are being too harsh on the players the Tigers acquired. I would agree that I would've thought they could've acquired more for Fister, but these are three players 25 and under. Everyone says Lombardozzi sucks, but he had some decent hitting seasons in the minors and he's not yet reached an age where it's improbable that he would improve at the MLB level. Krol pitched well in the majors last year. Not as good as Smyly, whose role he apparently will be adopting, but well. He's in his early 20s. Ray seems to be improving and is also in his early 20s.

I'm not here to convince anyone that the Tigers won this trade or even that people should be happy. I just don't see this as a calamity right now. I see the Tigers getting younger, adding two quality support players and possibly a good starter. Perhaps they should've gotten more than that for Fister, but it's one thing to get less value than you gave and it's another to get nothing. These players may end up being nothing, but there are solid, non-delusional reasons to believe that all can be helpful. I'll wait and let these players fail and draw my ire as Tigers before I get too riled up about this.

How did the Tigers not parlay their excess of starting pitching for a LF or 3B?

This is more mystifying to me. I agree. I should hope they don't go into Spring Training with an obvious hole, but there's lots of time left.

Ray is a very good prospect. But he wasn't enough to net Fister. If Shields landed TB Myers +, we should have gotten much more for Fister.

Let's be fair though, everybody pointed and laughed at Kansas City for making that trade. And they had some unique franchise circumstances pushing them to make that trade that everyone laughed at them for making. So I don't necessarily think it's fair to say that we should get something comparable to Myers because Tampa did.

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The Verlander tweet reminded me that there is no way the Tigers would want to piss off him or Cabrera by cutting and running.

You don't give Verlander 28 million a season and then the next year dump the team. There will be much bigger and better moves right around the corner.

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What people are missing is that Fister just isn't that good. Facts are facts: He's a marginal 500 pitcher for his whole career. I'll be stunned if he becomes a 20 game winner for the nationals. Because that would be the complete antithesis of his statistical norms, which players inevitably return to when they have a career year. And you could argue last year was his career year at 14-9. He has enough major league service time that we can safely call him what he is- a borderline 4th starter, maybe 3rd on a weak team. I'm just not that broken up over this. We essentially traded this generation's Milt Wilcox- one really good year and alot of average, 500 years. I like Milt alot and Fister was a very nice person too. But that doesn't mean someone is giving us a top 20 prospect for either of them.

Stop.

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They're trying to win the ****ing world series! **** the damn farm system.

Yes, which is why I'm glad they found a way to get smyly into the rotation.

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If only they had more time this offseason to fill those holes.

Considering we just moved our last decent trade chip (surplus SP), we're going to have to fill those holes on the FA market most likely. To get anything good (Cano, Ellsbury, Choo, Beltran), that'll require us to take on another questionable long-term contract AND lose our first round draft pick. So yes, Ray does help the minor league system a little, but in the bigger picture it's one step forward and one step back on the farm.

Instead, we should have used the trade chip to fill a need at the MLB level and refurbished the system with our own first round pick.

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Apparently fister is projected to provide 4 war next season? Got a source for that?

Steamer projections has Fister and Porcello about even- a little over 3 WAR. Zips has Smyly as worth a little over 2 WAR with an ERA+ of 104 as a starter.

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I will say that Ray looks pretty nice. But it's highly unlikely he will ever come close to being Fister. Krol and Lombardozzi are both useless crap. So what's the point in this?

Oh, you've seen Krol pitch?

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I'm confused as anyone. I think the Tigers must be concerned about Fister maintaining his high level, or they must really like Robbie Ray. But I personally didn't see enough with Fister to share that opinion.....there's been maybe 1 or 2 signs, but nothing make you trade him.

Ray had a good year and seems to have a good fastball/off-speed, but can he ever command enough? If he is the #3 that DD believes he is, it's a win for the Tigers. But one can't help but think of Crosby and Oliver, altho Ray is at least not as wild to such degree.

Lombo makes no sense unless the scouting says something different. Hernan Perez could do the same.

Krol seems like a very valuable piece tho, converted to a reliever it seems after an elbow injury, but had a very good season in 2013 overall 2 years past.

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DD's response is very telling. He isn't done yet. He is going to pursue a closer.

Hmmm......transactions since July 15th....

1) We have replaced Fielder with nothing.

2) We have replaced Peralta with Iglesias.

3) We have replaced Infante with Kinsler.

4) We have replaced Fister with nothing.

5) We have replaced Veras with nothing

6) We have replaced Avisail Garcia with Robbie Ray (top-75 prospects)

7) We have replaced Benoit with nothing (but we will pay more than Fisters $7 for a closer like Wilson or Nathan)

From a output standpoint.....I think we are going to have to sign Ellsbury/Choo, plus Nathan, plus a RP just to get us back to where we left off at the end of 2013. And a payroll of $200 million.

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Yes, which is why I'm glad they found a way to get smyly into the rotation.

Go home Shelton, you're drunk.

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I'm confused as anyone. I think the Tigers must be concerned about Fister maintaining his high level, or they must really like Robbie Ray. But I personally didn't see enough with Fister to share that opinion.....there's been maybe 1 or 2 signs, but nothing make you trade him.

Ray had a good year and seems to have a good fastball/off-speed, but can he ever command enough? If he is the #3 that DD believes he is, it's a win for the Tigers. But one can't help but think of Crosby and Oliver, altho Ray is at least not as wild to such degree.

Lombo makes no sense unless the scouting says something different. Hernan Perez could do the same.

Krol seems like a very valuable piece tho, converted to a reliever it seems after an elbow injury, but had a very good season in 2013 overall 2 years past.

Didn't Crosby have a lot of arm issues? Injuries really set back his career.

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Considering we just moved our last decent trade chip (surplus SP), we're going to have to fill those holes on the FA market most likely. To get anything good (Cano, Ellsbury, Choo, Beltran), that'll require us to take on another questionable long-term contract AND lose our first round draft pick. So yes, Ray does help the minor league system a little, but in the bigger picture it's one step forward and one step back on the farm.

Instead, we should have used the trade chip to fill a need at the MLB level and refurbished the system with our own first round pick.

Care to provide an actual example of the alternative mlb level return that they should have gotten instead?

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Steamer projections has Fister and Porcello about even- a little over 3 WAR. Zips has Smyly as worth a little over 2 WAR with an ERA+ of 104 as a starter.

How many innings from zips?

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What people are missing is that Fister just isn't that good. Facts are facts: He's a marginal 500 pitcher for his whole career. I'll be stunned if he becomes a 20 game winner for the nationals. Because that would be the complete antithesis of his statistical norms, which players inevitably return to when they have a career year. And you could argue last year was his career year at 14-9. He has enough major league service time that we can safely call him what he is- a borderline 4th starter, maybe 3rd on a weak team. I'm just not that broken up over this. We essentially traded this generation's Milt Wilcox- one really good year and alot of average, 500 years. I like Milt alot and Fister was a very nice person too. But that doesn't mean someone is giving us a top 20 prospect for either of them.

Hooray for W/L records!

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I went back and looked. There were 727 posts in the Prince Fielder Traded thread within the first 24 hours of the deal. This thread has more than half as many within 3 hours of a deal involving our 4th best starter. Me thinks a few folks are over reacting on this one. Let it play out.

And yes, I stand by the "this generation's Milt Wilcox" comment on Fister. I think we can plug smyly in there and be just as good, if not better. And have a lefty in the rotation to boot.

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Don't think Lombardozzi is worthless. A solid bench guy with some upside. Hernan Perez still has a chance to be a regular, but his bat could use a full season at AAA.

I do agree with Burgandy that this deal makes it much less likely that we trade for a corner bat now. If the team is going to improve there, it probably means signing a FA, any of which would cost a draft pick.

That said, if DD could have moved Fister or Porcello for a corner bat (with equal or less service time), he would have done it. Did not see an obvious match out there and that's probably because there wasn't one.

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I went back and looked. There were 727 posts in the Prince Fielder Traded thread within the first 24 hours of the deal. This thread has more than half as many within 3 hours of a deal involving our 4th best starter. Me thinks a few folks are over reacting on this one. Let it play out.

And yes, I stand by the "this generation's Milt Wilcox" comment on Fister. I think we can plug smyly in there and be just as good, if not better. And have a lefty in the rotation to boot.

Fister is probably close to Milt Wilcox. But in this world both of those players carry a ton of value. Especially at the 2/$20 Fister is going to cost the next 2 seasons. That is why teams have paid 2 top-50 prospects for guys like them.....plus the 2 pieces of filler we got.

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Don't think Lombardozzi is worthless. A solid bench guy with some upside. Hernan Perez still has a chance to be a regular, but his bat could use a full season at AAA.

I do agree with Burgandy that this deal makes it much less likely that we trade for a corner bat now. If the team is going to improve there, it probably means signing a FA, any of which would cost a draft pick.

That said, if DD could have moved Fister or Porcello for a corner bat (with equal or less service time), he would have done it. Did not see an obvious match out there and that's probably because there wasn't one.

278 obp and cannot play ss. He is worthless.

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