Jump to content
chasfh

The Best Argument Why Minimum Wage Needs To Be Raised To A Minimum Living Standard

Recommended Posts

I think Chasf already laid out the criteria - in general people working 40hrs a week should be making enough they don't qualify for direct welfare benefits

But those are dependent on household income, number of dependents, residence location, etc. I don't think that employers can consider those factors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FanDuel Michigan Sports Betting

FanDuel Michigan $100 Launch Offer

Michigan online sports betting is launching shortly ( December 2020 or January 2021). Pre-register at FanDuel Sportsbook and get $50 free sports bets + $50 free online casino bets with no deposit necessary. Claim $100 at FanDuel Michigan Now

I think Chasf already laid out the criteria - in general people working 40hrs a week should be making enough they don't qualify for direct welfare benefits

And that number is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And that number is?

HHS poverty line for a family of 3 is 20k, for 4 is 24k. That would require MW between $10-12/hr. Which is a point where there is a lot of public support and a good deal of motion in that direction already. That is a 33% bump from current Federal rate and more for most states. That would be a good level to achieve more widely.

I'm not so sure how experiments at higher levels that high cost of living towns like Seattle have pushed to will turn out. I can imagine they are going to cause some dislocations but what and how much is unknown till someone tries. Federalism and all that....

Edited by Gehringer_2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
$35 an hour sounds right to me, everyone should have the dignity of earning at least that. Anything less is modern day slave labor.

Look at it this way, TS: if/when they raise up the minimum wage to $15, you will get a raise up to that wage, too. So don't worry, you won't be left behind! :wink::laugh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Look at it this way, TS: if/when they raise up the minimum wage to $15, you will get a raise up to that wage, too. So don't worry, you won't be left behind! :wink::laugh:

Pee on that, I'd have to go back to work - got no interest in that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At a 40 hour week I believe I would only have to make around $9 an hour to not qualify for public assistance, so sure that doesn't sound crazy.

$15 would be a touch beyond that.

Edited by pyrotigers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ah, yes, potshots. Refuge of the wobbly position. :grin:

I think the definition being used in the debate is ability to support a family of four in a minimally acceptable fashion. That's not everybody's circumstance, sure, and some single people will benefit more and some families of more than four might still struggle, but drawing the line at supporting a family of four seems like the most reasonable way to approach it.

What do you think my position is?

And what do you think the minimum wage should be? I haven't been following the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What do you think my position is?

And what do you think the minimum wage should be? I haven't been following the thread.

Your position appears to be whatever my position isn't.

I think a fair minimum wage is whatever can support a family of four if both adults make minimum wage. Basically, I'm for raising the minimum wage high enough so that full time workers can extract themselves from having to go on government assistance to make up the difference between a poverty-level wage and a fair living wage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At a 40 hour week I believe I would only have to make around $9 an hour to not qualify for public assistance, so sure that doesn't sound crazy.

$15 would be a touch beyond that.

No, that's not true for the head of household of a family.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, that's not true for the head of household of a family.

But employers can't give procreation raises. And there is the issue that the largest portion of families living in poverty are single parent households, most often not receiving child support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But employers can't give procreation raises. And there is the issue that the largest portion of families living in poverty are single parent households, most often not receiving child support.

I think a fair minimum wage is whatever can support a family of four if both adults make minimum wage. Basically, I'm for raising the minimum wage high enough so that full time workers can extract themselves from having to go on government assistance to make up the difference between a poverty-level wage and a fair living wage. That was the original intent of minimum wage, and I think we should go back to that.

And I don't see why we should treat single parent households any differently from two parent households.

Edited by chasfh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think a fair minimum wage is whatever can support a family of four if both adults make minimum wage. Basically, I'm for raising the minimum wage high enough so that full time workers can extract themselves from having to go on government assistance to make up the difference between a poverty-level wage and a fair living wage. That was the original intent of minimum wage, and I think we should go back to that.

And I don't see why we should treat single parent households any differently from two parent households.

Except you're trying to force 2 adult households on people by using that as the "norm" to set a minimum wage. If it's a living wage it ought to be high enough for one adult to support a household.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Except you're trying to force 2 adult households on people by using that as the "norm" to set a minimum wage. If it's a living wage it ought to be high enough for one adult to support a household.

Nobody is trying to 'force' anything.

Minimum wage needs to be set at some level or based on some assumption. That fact alone does not mean or imply that is those are the conditions the government is attempting to impose.

Out of curiosity, why do you think the calculation should be based on the assumption of a one income family?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Except you're trying to force 2 adult households on people by using that as the "norm" to set a minimum wage. If it's a living wage it ought to be high enough for one adult to support a household.

I agree that the two adult household is not everybody's circumstance, and some single people will benefit more while some families of more than four might still struggle. But you have to draw a line somewhere, and drawing it at the ability of a two adult household to support a family of four seems like the most reasonable way to approach it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nobody is trying to 'force' anything.

Minimum wage needs to be set at some level or based on some assumption. That fact alone does not mean or imply that is those are the conditions the government is attempting to impose.

Out of curiosity, why do you think the calculation should be based on the assumption of a one income family?

IF you want to help those in poverty that has to be your target, check the statistics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IF you want to help those in poverty that has to be your target, check the statistics.

Two things:

1. Why wouldn't raising the minimum wage such that two working adults can adequately support a family of four help someone in poverty? It seems likely that would increase their income potential as well, even if it wouldn't cover everything.

2. That presumes the aim of setting the minimum wage is based solely on getting all families in poverty out of poverty.

Specific to 2., I think that is a faulty premise.

On some level, I don't think there will ever be a state where all family financial needs are adequately addressed with a higher minimum wage. By that, I mean if we make it so that one person on minimum wage can support a family of four, then an argument exists why not make it a family of six, or alternatively, a person working part-time at minimum wage can support a family of four. That argument can be extended without end.

It seems to me what would make the most sense is to try to strike a balance between trying to peg minimum wage to some basic standard of living such that a traditional family can support itself adequately without raising the rate to levels that it costs these same individuals any reasonable shot at a job because they can't deliver value to a corporation commensurate with their pay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, that's not true for the head of household of a family.

Maybe it's not a businesses job to subsidize people having a bunch of children they can't afford?

I have to make tough decisions every day, it's part of being an adult. I have a 10 year old truck, certainly don't have the home I want, and have no kids. But hey, I can afford those things. I'm imagining this alternate reality where I have 2 kids, do nothing to increase my job performance/skills, and yet become entitled to a massive raise. Hmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Logical, real world applications are not some peoples strong suit.

Trolling sans actual content is your strong suit. And you're not very strong. And your suit is wrinkled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe it's not a businesses job to subsidize people having a bunch of children they can't afford?

I have to make tough decisions every day, it's part of being an adult. I have a 10 year old truck, certainly don't have the home I want, and have no kids. But hey, I can afford those things. I'm imagining this alternate reality where I have 2 kids, do nothing to increase my job performance/skills, and yet become entitled to a massive raise. Hmm.

Maybe they're not having a "bunch of children they can't afford". Maybe they're having only two children. A full time working couple should be able to afford to provide them a living wage, and personally, I would rather that their employers pay for that than you and I as taxpayers subsidizing those employers while they pocket the difference. Wouldn't you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a husband and wife both made $15 an hour that would equate to $62,400 a year which is above the average US family income of $51,939.

A wage of $12.48 would put a couple right at the average family income in the USA.

The poverty level for a family of 4 is $23,850 which would be a minimum wage of $11.47 for 1 worker.

Michigan's minimum wage is currently $8.50 after raising earlier this month on January 1st.

Edited by Ingefanclub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe they're not having a "bunch of children they can't afford". Maybe they're having only two children. A full time working couple should be able to afford to provide them a living wage, and personally, I would rather that their employers pay for that than you and I as taxpayers subsidizing those employers while they pocket the difference. Wouldn't you?

Maybe they have children, then their job situation changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe they have children, then their job situation changes.

Thanks nObama!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe it's not a businesses job to subsidize people having a bunch of children they can't afford?

Somebody better have those children and raise them to working age or you can forget ever drawing Social Security.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Michigan Sports Betting Offer

FanDuel Sportsbook Michigan - Sports Betting is launching in Michigan shortly (December 2020 or January 2021). If you register before it launches you will recieve $50 dollars at their online sportsbook and online casino!

Click Here to claim the FanDuel Michigan for $50 at Online Sportsbook & Casino Pre-registration Bonus Now

Motown Sports Blog



×
×
  • Create New...