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Jeff6851

2013-14 Offseason Thread

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If Ellsbury were interested in coming to Detroit, I'd definitely talk to him. I don't like the idea of more big contracts but he is everything we want Jackson to be. He steal A LOT, he dives, he gets one base.

I don't see Leyland doing it but I'd like to see Omar (if re-signed) put in the two slot and Torii dropped in the lineup. I think Infante could steal a few bases a year as well (stole 5 this year, stole 17 in 2012). Omar struck out 44 times in 453 AB this year (9.7%), Hunter struck out 113 in 652 (17.3%).

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If Ellsbury were interested in coming to Detroit, I'd definitely talk to him. I don't like the idea of more big contracts but he is everything we want Jackson to be. He steal A LOT, he dives, he gets one base.

I don't see Leyland doing it but I'd like to see Omar (if re-signed) put in the two slot and Torii dropped in the lineup. I think Infante could steal a few bases a year as well (stole 5 this year, stole 17 in 2012). Omar struck out 44 times in 453 AB this year (9.7%), Hunter struck out 113 in 652 (17.3%).

I'm down with bring in Jacoby

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I could see the Tigers making a small run at Cano just to see what it costs and what kind of interest he has, especially if Infante turns down a qualifying offer. I don't think it will happen, but I could see them testing the waters.

Whoa there. The qualifying offer is $14.1M. So, um, they're not offering that to Infante.

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Boston shuffled off their clunky contracts to LA. It can happen.

This answer gives me hope. It is like a warm, fuzzy sweater and some hot chocolate in the middle of a bleak, cold winter.

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DD: Mr.I, remember when you make me sign Prince Fielder for more money per season and for more way more years than anyone else was willing to pay - when in fact, there were no other bidders?

Mr. I: Yes. Yes, David, I do.

DD: Well, it's time to move him. You meddled and now I'm left with the consequences. I want to deal Prince this winter and I want you to write a check for $100-$120 million to make that happen. It will free up an important position and help us improve defensively, inject some flexibility and intelligence and multiple dimensions into our club. Plus, by writing the check we won't be doing a salary dump but can get some good players in return.

Mr. I: And if I don't?

DD: Well, I'll just become the next commissioner and I'll suspend you for not acting in the best interests of baseball.

A guy can dream, can't he?

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Last year Prince had a down postseason and he was gonna come back and be great. This year he's the worst player ever and we have to move him immediately

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Last year Prince had a down postseason and he was gonna come back and be great. This year he's the worst player ever and we have to move him immediately

Just wait until he bombs, once again, in next year's post season.

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We need to not live in the past. Avila was awful defensively this season and it hurt us in the post season as well. Tigers would be wise to find someone else, but I don't see it happening.

I agree, but I don't see it happening either. For those that want to say Alex is supreme defensively- he had a higher passed ball rate than Pena and Pena wiped the mat with him in terms of caught stealing percentage. So unless you're going to be the best defensive catcher in baseball (which he clearly is not), you're simply a liability hitting 200-225 like Alex does.

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Avila is one of the best pitch framers in baseball (there was a study on this, I'm not just making this up), and by all accounts calls a good game, whether or not you think that's important. I think the extra strikes that he gets called for our pitchers is very important, and considering he also OPSed 880 after the all-star game, I think it'd be foolish to replace him. In fact, Avila is literally the player I'm least worried about in terms of position players.

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Jackson has a 344 career OBP. Elssbury 350. Your really only paying a huge premium for speed. I don't know why people are so down on Jackson. CF like Jackson aren't just easily replaced, especially at his current price.

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Bottom line: it would have been nice to have a Gates Brown-type player on the bench.

That rarely happens today though because 12 man pitching staffs limit your bench flexibility. You need to have enough players on the bench to cover all the positions, so teams don't usually have the luxury of having a professional pinch hitter on the bench.

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The easy/conservative route would be to basically bring back the same team, add Castellanos, and maybe add a bullpen arm or two. If Infante isn't re-signed b/c he's too expensive, then they'd probably use trade assets to bring in a 2B at the trade deadline.

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If we are to get one of Choo or Ellsbury you don't sell Jackson low, he's a very good CF and a lot of teams would pay a decent price for him.

I think you keep him and cut ties with Torii though.

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If we are to get one of Choo or Ellsbury you don't sell Jackson low, he's a very good CF and a lot of teams would pay a decent price for him.

I think you keep him and cut ties with Torii though.

You keep all three.

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They probably will actually. A one-year deal more than makes up for the high salary.

That would just be a terrible allocation of resources. Probably the biggest reason the Tigers lost in the ALCS was poor relief pitching, and you can build an entire bullpen for $14 million.

Last year there were 9 players who received qualifying offers, which was $13.3 million. David Ortiz signed a multi-year deal with the Red Sox, and the other 8 turned it down -- meaning they entered free agency rather than re-signing for 1 year, $13.3M. They were: Josh Hamilton, Michael Bourn, Kyle Lohse, Adam LaRoche, B.J. Upton, Hiroki Kuroda, Rafael Soriano and Nick Swisher.

In 2013, the only second baseman who made more than $14M were Chase Utley and Robinson Cano. There were 48 players total -- 29 position players -- who made at least $14.1M last season.

Qualifying offers are set based on the average of the top 125 salaries in baseball. I feel pretty strongly Infante is not in that class.

Also consider the maximum offer Infante would get in free agency. Even if the Tigers would prefer a 1-year deal, I doubt on the open market than any other team would give him more than 3 years, $20 million in free agency, which is what Marco Scutaro received last year which I felt was an overpay. So by saying you'd rather he take the qualifying offer is like saying he wouldn't get more than 2 years, $6 million after next season. Keep in mind the Tigers just paid $4.2M over the last 2 seasons to Ramon Santiago to be a backup.

The Rays highest paid player in franchise history was David Price last season, at $10.1125M, and he is going to be traded this offseason for top prospects. The Rays are probably the prototype on how a franchise should be run -- small market or not -- and yet we are here debating whether Omar Infante should be paid $14 million to guarantee his return next season. Absolutely mind-boggling and to be honest a little infuriating.

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Omar Infante is going to get at least 10 million per on the open market. 3 years 20 million would be a steal. The Tigers should be run like the Rays, yet we're complaining about making 3 straight ALCS and the Rays have only made it out of the first round once.

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Omar Infante is going to get at least 10 million per on the open market. 3 years 20 million would be a steal. The Tigers should be run like the Rays, yet we're complaining about making 3 straight ALCS and the Rays have only made it out of the first round once.

Infante's career body of work simply does not merit a contract like that.

Position players who received AAV of $10M+ last year in free agency were Josh Hamilton, Michael Bourn, B.J. Upton, Nick Swisher, David Ortiz, Angel Pagan, Adam LaRoche, Shane Victorino, Torii Hunter and Lance Berkman.

It just doesn't make sense to me to give Infante a deal, as you suggest, for multiple years at $10M per when you can sign Kelly Johnson for much cheaper. This is not an either/or /which player would you rather have type argument because you've got the extra money to play with by taking a more reasonable deal. Kelly Johnson could probably be signed for 1 year, $3M and he was having a pretty decent season before Wil Myers was called up and cut into his playing time since Zobrist became the primary second baseman. .246/.319/.448, 10 HR, 37 RBI at the date of Myers call-up (through 59 games). Not great, but Infante isn't worth $7M more than that. Also he's not a disaster in LF and saw some time at 3B and 1B last season -- the type of versatilty should be valued given the players the Tigers have at those positions.

And I say not either/or because by saving $7 million by doing so you have money to sign at least 2 and maybe 3 solid relievers. The Tigers have manipulated their fan base into thinking every decision is always about bringing in the better player (therefore more expensive) but it's not because it severely limits the options to fill other holes.

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No! I want Castellanos!

He's not going anywhere. I'm not sure what there is to like about a below average corner outfielder with a sub 800 ops in AAA who lacks good plate discipline. He isn't ready and Hunter only has one year left and 3B may be opening up soon.

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Infante's career body of work simply does not merit a contract like that.

Position players who received AAV of $10M+ last year in free agency were Josh Hamilton, Michael Bourn, B.J. Upton, Nick Swisher, David Ortiz, Angel Pagan, Adam LaRoche, Shane Victorino, Torii Hunter and Lance Berkman.

It just doesn't make sense to me to give Infante a deal, as you suggest, for multiple years at $10M per when you can sign Kelly Johnson for much cheaper. This is not an either/or /which player would you rather have type argument because you've got the extra money to play with by taking a more reasonable deal. Kelly Johnson could probably be signed for 1 year, $3M and he was having a pretty decent season before Wil Myers was called up and cut into his playing time since Zobrist became the primary second baseman. .246/.319/.448, 10 HR, 37 RBI at the date of Myers call-up (through 59 games). Not great, but Infante isn't worth $7M more than that. Also he's not a disaster in LF and saw some time at 3B and 1B last season -- the type of versatilty should be valued given the players the Tigers have at those positions.

And I say not either/or because by saving $7 million by doing so you have money to sign at least 2 and maybe 3 solid relievers. The Tigers have manipulated their fan base into thinking every decision is always about bringing in the better player (therefore more expensive) but it's not because it severely limits the options to fill other holes.

Infante is the second best free agent 2B on the open market. Since 2010, Infante has been a 2+ win player. Infate had a 3.1 WAR this year and Utley 3.9 and Utley signed for 12.5 million a year and is 3 years older.

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I wonder who would be easier to move and would bring the bigger return between Sanchez and Schezer. I can see one of the two moved for younger pieces that ould be long term answers.

I'm thinking a trade centered on Profor or Stanton.... just off the top of my head. If you trade Sanchez of course you take his money and give it to Schezer.

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