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belcherboy

Is it time to give the ball to Morris and bench Gardner?

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Michigan doesn't have the OL for a pocket passer. Morris would spend half of Michigan's offensive snaps on his *** if he started.

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Michigan is relying on a QB with less than a season of starts to generate too much of their offense. Morris wouldn't be more effective.

I don't know if I agree with the bolded part. I think they are relying on a QB with terrible decision making skills when it comes to the passing game. The same problem we had with his predecessor. Like I said before, the QB is the linchpin of the entire offense. If you can't effectively pass, than nothing is going to work. I don't think Gardner is the entire problem. We have a weak OL and our I'm not sold on our WR's. But I do think Gardner isn't getting better, and I'm afraid if Michigan doesn't begin developing an effective passer, we may see Gardner return for a senior season next year and end up a lot like Denard's senior year. IMO, at this point in the season I don't care about Morris being "more effective". If Morris where able to put up similar numbers, at least he would be gaining experience. Although I think there is a lot of value to a QB's mental stability, and I would hate to see Morris thrown to the wolves too early in his career. Bottom line is that Morris was suppose to be the "prototypical QB" for Borges system. I'd like to see more of him, at least in times when Gardner is playing poorly.

Michigan doesn't have the OL for a pocket passer. Morris would spend half of Michigan's offensive snaps on his *** if he started.

This seems to be true, and might have more to do with why they don't throw Morris out there.

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It doesn't matter.

The line cannot block, and Borges stubbornly continues to run right into it over and over.

Changing the QB would only serve to remove the one threat we have of gaining yards on the ground, usually as the result of a failed passing play.

I was hoping that this wouldn't be a transition year, but we are seeing the results of poor offensive line recruiting by rich rod. I thought that the kids Brady brought in would be able to step in, but there is a reason o linemen always redshirt. It just takes a lot of time to be able to learn that position at this level.

There is always next year.

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It doesn't matter.

The line cannot block, and Borges stubbornly continues to run right into it over and over.

Changing the QB would only serve to remove the one threat we have of gaining yards on the ground, usually as the result of a failed passing play.

I was hoping that this wouldn't be a transition year, but we are seeing the results of poor offensive line recruiting by rich rod. I thought that the kids Brady brought in would be able to step in, but there is a reason o linemen always redshirt. It just takes a lot of time to be able to learn that position at this level.

There is always next year.

I like the recruiting that Brady is doing, so the future still looks really good. I think a lot of us (myself included) thought we would have a better team than what has played the past 3-4 games. I think my biggest worry is that we will have a good team next year, and still won't run the pro style offense that Borges wants to run because we have a QB who can't effectively deliver a pass consistently. Gardner has had a game or two where he looks REALLY good (ND this year), but several of the other games he has looked like a deer in headlights when delivering the ball. The sad part is, that he has looked bad against bad teams. (and that explains why a 5-1 Michigan team isn't even ranked in the top 25)

We'll just have to wait and see! 5-1 with a bad OL and QB is a nice problem to have. I'm just ready to have an NFL caliber QB playing at Michigan again, and regaining my confidence in Michigan's chances of beating Ohio State. Maybe Gardner becomes that guy after he gets a full season under his belt. Hopefully he wakes up becomes that guy against OSU this year.

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I don't know if I agree with the bolded part. I think they are relying on a QB with terrible decision making skills when it comes to the passing game. The same problem we had with his predecessor. Like I said before, the QB is the linchpin of the entire offense. If you can't effectively pass, than nothing is going to work. I don't think Gardner is the entire problem. We have a weak OL and our I'm not sold on our WR's. But I do think Gardner isn't getting better, and I'm afraid if Michigan doesn't begin developing an effective passer, we may see Gardner return for a senior season next year and end up a lot like Denard's senior year. IMO, at this point in the season I don't care about Morris being "more effective". If Morris where able to put up similar numbers, at least he would be gaining experience. Although I think there is a lot of value to a QB's mental stability, and I would hate to see Morris thrown to the wolves too early in his career. Bottom line is that Morris was suppose to be the "prototypical QB" for Borges system. I'd like to see more of him, at least in times when Gardner is playing poorly.

This seems to be true, and might have more to do with why they don't throw Morris out there.

If this was a mature offense with a decent line and running game and Gardner was making the mistakes he has made my judgement would be different. And if this was a mature offense they would probably be limiting the throws and expected reads the way Carr did when he nursed a young QB.

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I don't know if I agree with the bolded part. I think they are relying on a QB with terrible decision making skills when it comes to the passing game. The same problem we had with his predecessor. Like I said before, the QB is the linchpin of the entire offense. If you can't effectively pass, than nothing is going to work. I don't think Gardner is the entire problem. We have a weak OL and our I'm not sold on our WR's. But I do think Gardner isn't getting better, and I'm afraid if Michigan doesn't begin developing an effective passer, we may see Gardner return for a senior season next year and end up a lot like Denard's senior year. IMO, at this point in the season I don't care about Morris being "more effective". If Morris where able to put up similar numbers, at least he would be gaining experience. Although I think there is a lot of value to a QB's mental stability, and I would hate to see Morris thrown to the wolves too early in his career. Bottom line is that Morris was suppose to be the "prototypical QB" for Borges system. I'd like to see more of him, at least in times when Gardner is playing poorly.

This seems to be true, and might have more to do with why they don't throw Morris out there.

Why can't Borges adapt to the players he has? Seems like in your posts that the "Borges system" is right, the players are wrong. I find the inability to adapt to the talent you have to work with to be a sign of a poor coach. You defend the "stable of good QBs". Well do you think he's the reason they did what they did? I'd argue he had less to do with it then a coach in his position should.

College football is a coaches' game. It's on them first and foremost.

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Why can't Borges adapt to the players he has? Seems like in your posts that the "Borges system" is right, the players are wrong. I find the inability to adapt to the talent you have to work with to be a sign of a poor coach. You defend the "stable of good QBs". Well do you think he's the reason they did what they did? I'd argue he had less to do with it then a coach in his position should.

College football is a coaches' game. It's on them first and foremost.

So what system should Borges run that will make Gardner a better passing QB? I don't take Borges out of the "blame game", but the bottom line is that Gardner hasn't done well in all but one game this year. Perhaps it is Borges fault, but I don't see what play calling change could happen to create a competent passer in Gardner right now. I'm still optimistic, but again, when do you pull the plug and start with working on your QB of the future?

Edited by belcherboy

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It doesn't matter.

The line cannot block, and Borges stubbornly continues to run right into it over and over.

Changing the QB would only serve to remove the one threat we have of gaining yards on the ground, usually as the result of a failed passing play.

I was hoping that this wouldn't be a transition year, but we are seeing the results of poor offensive line recruiting by rich rod. I thought that the kids Brady brought in would be able to step in, but there is a reason o linemen always redshirt. It just takes a lot of time to be able to learn that position at this level.

There is always next year.

Not only a learning issue. Few men can approach their peak strength at 18 or 19 and O-Line is strength position. On average even a well trained 18-19 yr old is not going to be as strong as he can be at 22-23 even if he has learned the offense.

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well...

It was good to see Michigan play better, but Indiana is ranked 101 in points given up per game. Regardless, I'm glad to see the improvement in Gardner. Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come!

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It was good to see Michigan play better, but Indiana is ranked 101 in points given up per game. Regardless, I'm glad to see the improvement in Gardner. Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come!

Last game and a half in drives it feels like M has either fumbled or the coaches have gotten in the way. This was always the offense to run, 2011 style with more passing. It's not that complicated, basically you just don't run the ball out of I-form with 9 men in the box.

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Last game and a half in drives it feels like M has either fumbled or the coaches have gotten in the way. This was always the offense to run, 2011 style with more passing. It's not that complicated, basically you just don't run the ball out of I-form with 9 men in the box.

I don't mind the I-formation but I don't understand why Gardner can't back out of it/audible when he sees how the defense is lined up.

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I don't mind the I-formation but I don't understand why Gardner can't back out of it/audible when he sees how the defense is lined up.

The only good plays I've seen out of the I-form were play-actions. Unfortunately, it didn't work against Penn St. because they couldn't pass block from it either.

I like the old power M football and look forwards to its successful return as much as anybody, but we're not Stanford in terms of personnel to do that yet.

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I don't mind the I-formation but I don't understand why Gardner can't back out of it/audible when he sees how the defense is lined up.

He struggled taking the snap from under center too. I don't understand why.

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I can't take another season with a run first / crappy passer QB. Move Devin back to WR next season and start Morris at QB. Thank God Toussaint is graduating- he's essentially a warm body at RB who can't block worth a lick. Put an end to the goofy RichRod offense once and for all.

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I admit, I was surprised how Toussaint basically just lied down -- every time he had a blocking assignment, he was on the ground in, like, no time flat...

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I admit, I was surprised how Toussaint basically just lied down -- every time he had a blocking assignment, he was on the ground in, like, no time flat...

Toussaint is garbage. I can't figure out why he continues to get a majority of plays at RB while Green is on the sideline.

The Hoke honeymoon is over. Michigan is only marginally better than when RichRod was destroying the program. Next year had better see a significant improvement along with an offense that is more pro-style than "RichRod", along with a defense that isn't an embarrassment.

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Toussaint has been awful, but I don't think any RB would do good with this line. The line is the biggest problem with the team, and I thought at this point in Hoke's career that it would start to be one of the better units. This is the most frustrating part about the offense in my opinion.

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Toussaint has been awful, but I don't think any RB would do good with this line. The line is the biggest problem with the team, and I thought at this point in Hoke's career that it would start to be one of the better units. This is the most frustrating part about the offense in my opinion.

It's not surprising that the line is in the shape it is in.

We had a coach here that was a complete failure when it came to recruiting an offensive line.

When hoke came in, there was no one good left to recruit in that area.

This being his third year, his line recruits are freshmen and sophomores. It's too early to say that this was the year to expect it to be good. Maybe by next year the line will be good enough, but it might be 2015 before the line is rebuilt.

I think hoke may very well be on the hot seat next season, but I think it would be too soon to fire him. I prefer my coaches to get five years, especially when there has been so much change in systems over the last six years.

The state of the program right now sucks, but I don't blame Brandon or hoke for it. Get back to me in two years.

It really sucks that this has happened, but whatever.

Just think about 2015 though! Junior Shane Morris behind a robust line, with good running backs and receivers, and a stout defense. Ohio state at home. That's the year.

Just gotta hold out hope for a capital one bowl bid in the meantime. Woo.

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