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belcherboy

Is it time to give the ball to Morris and bench Gardner?

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I don't think Gardner has the ability to lead this team anymore. I know it isn't 100% his fault, but it may just be time to move on to the next generation. Michigan is lucky that they got to 5-0 without a loss, as the offense and defense have not been very good. Morris seems to be the QB that this offense is meant to have, although if Morris was looking good enough to start in practice, he'd probably be starting by now...at least you would think so.

Is it time to move on, or do we keep it the same and hope that Michigan can win out and get the conference championship game?

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Not sure how anyone can answer this unless they have attended practices. We have limited exposure to Morris and all of it in late game mop up duty.

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Not sure how anyone can answer this unless they have attended practices. We have limited exposure to Morris and all of it in late game mop up duty.

But we have been watching Gardner in games. He has been pretty bad. At this point, I find it hard to believe that Michigan won't lose at least another 2-3 games in conference. If Morris is the QB that fits the pro-style offense that Borges wants to run, and we aren't going to win our side of the B1G, why not let the 5* freshman take over the reigns. Honestly, I don't think he could do much worse. (I may regret saying that if they do decide to put Morris in)

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Certainly could...You'd struggle to reach bowl eligibility.

Maybe they should wait till that time then. Regardless, I think Michigan would win one more game....even if Morris is starting. I just don't see the benefit to starting Gardner, unless 1) Morris is just not ready, or 2) They think Gardner is going to be the starting QB next year.

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Certainly could...You'd struggle to reach bowl eligibility.

I'm questioning if they will make a bowl with Gardner.

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This is such a tough question. With Gardner, the offense is probably better and has a better chance to win games (when he doesn't go full implosion mode), but you're only stalling the program. If you put Morris in, it's not going to be a nice transition like when Henne came in as a freshman. Henne was surrounded by experienced players, Morris would not.

My personal thought after cooling down a little is to ride out Gardner the rest of the season. But you have to adjust the playcalling to fit the offense. There is a point where running your system just becomes stubbornness. Sometimes it looks like they are doing that with more read-options, but then the next drive it is back to the I-formation. It just doesn't work with this line and QB.

Now next season, Morris should be ready.

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But we have been watching Gardner in games. He has been pretty bad. At this point, I find it hard to believe that Michigan won't lose at least another 2-3 games in conference. If Morris is the QB that fits the pro-style offense that Borges wants to run, and we aren't going to win our side of the B1G, why not let the 5* freshman take over the reigns. Honestly, I don't think he could do much worse. (I may regret saying that if they do decide to put Morris in)

I only make a change if I feel Morris is better. I don't have the information to answer that question. With the way coaches are hired/fired these days, I doubt Hoke is keeping Morris on the bench if he felt he gave them the best shot at winning.

I don't want to defend Gardner, because he didn't play that hot. But this team has a lot of issues other than him. 28 yards rushing from their RB's. 27 yards on 27 carries for Fitz. Horrible OL play. The defense just bent over and took it on the last drive in regulation. Suspect play calling and coaching. Plenty of blame to go around.

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This is such a tough question. With Gardner, the offense is probably better and has a better chance to win games (when he doesn't go full implosion mode), but you're only stalling the program. If you put Morris in, it's not going to be a nice transition like when Henne came in as a freshman. Henne was surrounded by experienced players, Morris would not.

My personal thought after cooling down a little is to ride out Gardner the rest of the season. But you have to adjust the playcalling to fit the offense. There is a point where running your system just becomes stubbornness. Sometimes it looks like they are doing that with more read-options, but then the next drive it is back to the I-formation. It just doesn't work with this line and QB.

Now next season, Morris should be ready.

Unfortunately, I think it stalls the development of the rest of the offense when you don't run the system. I think for as much good as Denard did, IMO his presence stopped the offense (offensive line, RB's, and receivers) from developing into a quality pro style offense. I thought Gardner was going to be a much improved passer to Denard, but so far he has made AWFUL decisions.

Unless the coaches think it would hurt his development and self esteem, IMO it would be a good time to give Morris a shot. Indiana has a terrible defense, so it might be a good time to give him a shot.

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Gardner is an incredible raw athlete but the guy is just really, really stupid. I blame the coaching staff more for not doing a better job to have him prepared. Know your personnel, dumb down the system if you have to. I find it hard to believe they could get a rookie QB in a position to succeed.

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Unfortunately, I think it stalls the development of the rest of the offense when you don't run the system. I think for as much good as Denard did, IMO his presence stopped the offense (offensive line, RB's, and receivers) from developing into a quality pro style offense. I thought Gardner was going to be a much improved passer to Denard, but so far he has made AWFUL decisions.

Unless the coaches think it would hurt his development and self esteem, IMO it would be a good time to give Morris a shot. Indiana has a terrible defense, so it might be a good time to give him a shot.

That is true. Running the RR offense with Denard in the first two years definitely stalled the offense's progression toward this system. I guess it's a question of do you want to sacrifice wins now to get this new system in ASAP (which is what Rodriguez did) or slowly creep into it, which is what we've seen so far with Hoke. Neither way is going to be fun to watch, but I can see why Hoke did it this way after the RR era.

But now I think the offense is just a QB away from that total transition. Maybe you're right, and it is time to sacrifice the current upside for the future of the program.

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I only make a change if I feel Morris is better. I don't have the information to answer that question. With the way coaches are hired/fired these days, I doubt Hoke is keeping Morris on the bench if he felt he gave them the best shot at winning.

Yeah, there probably is a lot to that sentiment. You think they would go with Morris if they felt he was even close to as good as Gardner at this point.

I don't want to defend Gardner, because he didn't play that hot. But this team has a lot of issues other than him. 28 yards rushing from their RB's. 27 yards on 27 carries for Fitz. Horrible OL play. The defense just bent over and took it on the last drive in regulation. Suspect play calling and coaching. Plenty of blame to go around.

No doubt that the RB's and OL have been pretty bad themselves, but I wonder how much of their poor play is because teams don't really have to respect the passing game?

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Gardner is an incredible raw athlete but the guy is just really, really stupid. I blame the coaching staff more for not doing a better job to have him prepared. Know your personnel, dumb down the system if you have to. I find it hard to believe they could get a rookie QB in a position to succeed.

THIS is my biggest worry. Perhaps it is moreso the coaches that are keeping the offense from succeeding. They've had nearly 3 years now, and our QB play has been TERRIBLE during that time. The guys they have now, were all highly regarded recruits, so I just wonder why they don't have a decent throwing QB by now.

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It's time to fire Al Borges and bench the entire offensive line before Gardner goes.

Although, this is pretty funny after the threads last year. Good thing we got rid of that turnover prone running back Denard Robinson

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Devin is essentially Denard with a stronger arm. Morris won't be effective until the OL gets its **** together, one of the young RBs breaks out, and another viable WR option besides Funchess is available. The DL is absolutely horrible.

Next year will likely be pivotal years for Borges and Mattison. Neither one is producing schemes that are really impressive.

UM will be lucky to be .500 in Big Ten play this season. They really are not a very good team.

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It's time to fire Al Borges and bench the entire offensive line before Gardner goes.

Although, this is pretty funny after the threads last year. Good thing we got rid of that turnover prone running back Denard Robinson

If we keep all our recruits from this year, we should be STACKED at the OL with high end recruits next fall. Even right now, I thought we had some pretty highly rated talent at the OL from the 2012 recruiting class.

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If we keep all our recruits from this year, we should be STACKED at the OL with high end recruits next fall. Even right now, I thought we had some pretty highly rated talent at the OL from the 2012 recruiting class.

They do, they're just not playing well at all. Kyle Kalis was a can't miss prospect. Welp.

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They do, they're just not playing well at all. Kyle Kalis was a can't miss prospect. Welp.

I wonder how hard it is to develop good OL when the only QBs they have are some of the worst passers in Division One football. By the time Devin is gone , UM will not have had an effective passing QB in nearly 10 years.

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I wonder how hard it is to develop good OL when the only QBs they have are some of the worst passers in Division One football. By the time Devin is gone , UM will not have had an effective passing QB in nearly 10 years.

Which is such a vast difference from the Michigan teams of the 90's and early 00's. How many NFL QB's started on Sundays after they left Michigan over the past 2 decades? Off the top of my head Grbac, Collins, Brady, Henne, and I think even Navarre got some time. We were definitely a BIG QB school back a few decades ago.

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My crystal ball predicting a game without Gardner:

Fitz Toussaint - 28 carries for 42 yards

Derrick Green - 6 carries for 3 yards

Shane Morris - 6 carries for -31 yards

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My crystal ball predicting a game without Gardner:

Fitz Toussaint - 28 carries for 42 yards

Derrick Green - 6 carries for 3 yards

Shane Morris - 6 carries for -31 yards

IMO, I don't think it is our rushing numbers that are killing us. PSU stacked the box all game long. And why not, without PSU blown coverage in the first quarter where Gardner throws a 60 yard TD, his numbers would have BEEN really bad (as opposed to just bad). They dared him to throw all game, and he still didn't really take advantage of it

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That is true. Running the RR offense with Denard in the first two years definitely stalled the offense's progression toward this system. I guess it's a question of do you want to sacrifice wins now to get this new system in ASAP (which is what Rodriguez did) or slowly creep into it, which is what we've seen so far with Hoke. Neither way is going to be fun to watch, but I can see why Hoke did it this way after the RR era.

But now I think the offense is just a QB away from that total transition. Maybe you're right, and it is time to sacrifice the current upside for the future of the program.

I agree with you on the transition but they are more than a QB away. They are a couple of WRs and OL experience away. Until they can effectively run the ball throwing an even less experienced QB in there would be even worse...or so it seems.

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Which is such a vast difference from the Michigan teams of the 90's and early 00's. How many NFL QB's started on Sundays after they left Michigan over the past 2 decades? Off the top of my head Grbac, Collins, Brady, Henne, and I think even Navarre got some time. We were definitely a BIG QB school back a few decades ago.

Reach back a bit further it was really Jimmy Harbaugh that was the broke the ice at M for having an NFL quality QB. Greise took a few NFL snaps as well.

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I agree with you on the transition but they are more than a QB away. They are a couple of WRs and OL experience away. Until they can effectively run the ball throwing an even less experienced QB in there would be even worse...or so it seems.

I think they will have a pretty difficult time opening up the running game if the other team knows that your QB can't pass the ball very effectively. Again, it seemed like PSU was not shy about stacking the box....and Michigan still insisted on rushing right at them. Maybe if the OL gave Gardner a little more time, he may have a better passing game, but I haven't seen any improvement in his passing game this year.

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