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belcherboy

Trout over Cabrera for MVP; Hernandez over Scherzer for Cy Young; Myers over Iglesia?

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Nobody thinks players are strat-o-matic cards or robots or whatever. That is a tired ad hominem attack.

You are better than that.

This is the response he was hoping for.

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Dude is a really good player. I think what you are referencing was a discussion the board had a few months ago about trading Miggy for Trout straight up.

Trout is legit, but I am not trading Miggy for ANY player in the league right now straight up. HTH

Are you taking age into consideration? I'd take Trout for him straight up regardless of age, but it's close. Take age into consideration and it's no contest.

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I'm going with Cabrera for MVP. 3rd straight batting title. Injured for most of the 2nd half but played thru most of it. Still had amazing stats. The problem I have with Trout is

his team won nothing. It certainly wasn't his fault, but it seems to me an MVP should be able to elevate his team to a higher level and I don't see that in Anaheim.

.

He did raise them to a higher level. They'd be much worse without him. If they traded Trout for Cabrera before the season, they still would have been just as bad.

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I'd vote for Mike Trout this year. Would have voted for him last year as well.

I won't be too upset if Cabrera gets it again though.

If Cabrera was even average for the last month of the season I could be swayed in his direction even accounting for his shortcomings on defense and on the basepaths. His bat was just so dominant for the 80+% of the season that I could choose him on offense alone.

Also, if I had a vote I'd be giving the Cy to Anibal. That's more because I always felt more confident with him on the mound than Max though...Max was the more durable and valuable pitcher this season and certainly deserves it. Very close race with no overwhelming favorite this year. 2012 Verlander would win it in a landslide, but we got the 2013 version instead.

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He did raise them to a higher level. They'd be much worse without him. If they traded Trout for Cabrera before the season, they still would have been just as bad.

Man, I really really dislike factoring in a team's record. If Trout had hit 15 more bombs, stolen 20 more bases, made a few more plays, and hit 30 points higher the Angels still would have missed the playoffs despite Trout having the best season of a player in like, ever. If the Tiger's starting pitchers had 4 more games this season where they threw the game away early the Tigers would have missed the playoffs.

These are hypotheticals, exaggerated to make a point obviously.

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Man, I really really dislike factoring in a team's record. If Trout had hit 15 more bombs, stolen 20 more bases, made a few more plays, and hit 30 points higher the Angels still would have missed the playoffs despite Trout having the best season of a player in like, ever. If the Tiger's starting pitchers had 4 more games this season where they threw the game away early the Tigers would have missed the playoffs.

These are hypotheticals, exaggerated to make a point obviously.

Yeah, I understand why people want the MVP to be from a winning team, but it just doesn't seem fair to me for an individual award. I always pick who I think is the best player regardless of team record.

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What do you mean by lesser number? 2013 Cabrera is better than 2012 Cabrera in almost every way. The counting stats are very close, but Cabrera's rates are way better this year. I think Cabrera will win the MVP easily again this year and his closest competition will be Davis.

That's why I put "lesser" in quotes. Perhaps I'm not giving enough credit to the voters, but I think too many will look at the fact that he didn't get the most Homeruns and didn't get the most RBI's in the AL and chalk it up as a "lesser" season.

Myers will probably win because he has better power numbers. The fact that Iglesias split the season between two positions will hurt him, because that makes him look less like a slick defensive shortstop.

That's a good point too.

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That's why I put "lesser" in quotes. Perhaps I'm not giving enough credit to the voters, but I think too many will look at the fact that he didn't get the most Homeruns and didn't get the most RBI's in the AL and chalk it up as a "lesser" season.

Oh, I see what you mean. You may be right which is why of was sort of hoping he'd have one of the all-time best seasons, but fall short of the triple crown. I wanted to see how people would react to that. Not winning the triple crown and having a bad September was not what I wanted however.

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I'd be very surprised if Cabrera does not win MVP and Scherzer does not win CY. I think they are both near locks.

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Man, I really really dislike factoring in a team's record. If Trout had hit 15 more bombs, stolen 20 more bases, made a few more plays, and hit 30 points higher the Angels still would have missed the playoffs despite Trout having the best season of a player in like, ever. If the Tiger's starting pitchers had 4 more games this season where they threw the game away early the Tigers would have missed the playoffs.

These are hypotheticals, exaggerated to make a point obviously.

Look no further than Steve Carlton's 1972 or Chuck Klein's Triple Crown season on 1933.

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I guess I'm the only one here who thinks that Chris Davis will win the MVP.

Davis had 53 HRs to Cabrera's 44, and that's pretty substantial, but I think what puts him over the top is that he took the RBI crown away from Cabrera as well, and voters have always had a soft spot for RBI leaders. The main ding against him might be his .286 average, and that will cost him votes, but I think the "Davis did it clean" narrative will be pretty prominent among the many who will vote for him. ("He did it clean" does not contemplate Cabrera in any way. Just the idea that someone can still hit 50+ homers clean will be enough for some voters, I think.)

As for Cy Young, it could go a few different ways, but it's hard to argue against a 21-3 record, so I think Max does get it. I like Jonah, but I don't know how Max could lose the award to Felix since, to the naked eye, Max performed "obviously" a lot better (21-3, 2.90 ERA) than Felix did (12-10, 3.04 ERA). Colon (18-6, 2.65), and Sanchez (14-8, league leading 2.57) will duke it out for second and third, with each getting some first place votes.

I think Myers gets ROY since he is a stronger slugger and not that far off from hitting .300, while Iglesias and Chris Archer duke it out for the 2-3 slots.

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Man, I really really dislike factoring in a team's record. If Trout had hit 15 more bombs, stolen 20 more bases, made a few more plays, and hit 30 points higher the Angels still would have missed the playoffs despite Trout having the best season of a player in like, ever. If the Tiger's starting pitchers had 4 more games this season where they threw the game away early the Tigers would have missed the playoffs.

These are hypotheticals, exaggerated to make a point obviously.

I think the season the team had can be used, but only as a peripheral argument. If two players have near identical numbers I might look at team position as a tie breaker or probably as part of a tie breaker process. It certainly wouldn't be a major factor in my thinking and absolutely would not disqualify a player if he was really good, but on a bad team.

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I guess I'm the only one here who thinks that Chris Davis will win the MVP.

Davis had 53 HRs to Cabrera's 44, and that's pretty substantial, but I think what puts him over the top is that he took the RBI crown away from Cabrera as well, and voters have always had a soft spot for RBI leaders. The main ding against him might be his .286 average, and that will cost him votes, but I think the "Davis did it clean" narrative will be pretty prominent among the many who will vote for him. ("He did it clean" does not contemplate Cabrera in any way. Just the idea that someone can still hit 50+ homers clean will be enough for some voters, I think.)

One huge negative on Davis, if the voters look at it: 199 strike outs. Yikes! That 63 more than Trout and 105 more than Cabrera!

His total hits are pretty low too... well, relatively low for the crowd we're talking about. He's only 23rd over all in the AL. And despite the 9 more homeruns, his SLG (again, assuming the voters look at it) is actually two pts below Cabrera's. Furthermore, his OPS is only four points better than Scherzer, so...

As for Cy Young, it could go a few different ways, but it's hard to argue against a 21-3 record, so I think Max does get it.

Personally I think it's easy to argue against it... but I dunno if the voters will see that argument.

I think Myers gets ROY since he is a stronger slugger and not that far off from hitting .300, while Iglesias and Chris Archer duke it out for the 2-3 slots.

Agreed.

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Personally I think it's easy to argue against it... but I dunno if the voters will see that argument.

I too think it's easy to argue against all these.

Nothing in my post addresses who I think should win these awards. It addresses only who I think will win these awards. I'm talking about only how I think the vote will go down. MMMV.

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I guess I'm the only one here who thinks that Chris Davis will win the MVP.

Davis had 53 HRs to Cabrera's 44, and that's pretty substantial, but I think what puts him over the top is that he took the RBI crown away from Cabrera as well, and voters have always had a soft spot for RBI leaders. The main ding against him might be his .286 average, and that will cost him votes, but I think the "Davis did it clean" narrative will be pretty prominent among the many who will vote for him. ("He did it clean" does not contemplate Cabrera in any way. Just the idea that someone can still hit 50+ homers clean will be enough for some voters, I think.)

As for Cy Young, it could go a few different ways, but it's hard to argue against a 21-3 record, so I think Max does get it. I like Jonah, but I don't know how Max could lose the award to Felix since, to the naked eye, Max performed "obviously" a lot better (21-3, 2.90 ERA) than Felix did (12-10, 3.04 ERA). Colon (18-6, 2.65), and Sanchez (14-8, league leading 2.57) will duke it out for second and third, with each getting some first place votes.

I think Myers gets ROY since he is a stronger slugger and not that far off from hitting .300, while Iglesias and Chris Archer duke it out for the 2-3 slots.

I think Davis will finish second. Some will regard his season as a fluke. More importantly, Baltimore did not make post-season.

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I'd love to hear more about how Trout hasn't made the Angels a better team.

A day will come when these superman-like powers aren't applied to sports athletes. Hopefully. I guess it's fine if you want to believe that athletes have this super-human ability to make their teammates perform better. Maybe you need that to enjoy sports, for whatever reason. And that's great. But it's absolutely false. If it were true, no great athlete would ever play on a bad team.

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Now Davis ahead of Trout/Cabrera,that's a travesty.

I'm not one to underestimate the voters' propensity to vote for gaudy baseball card stats.

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I'd love to hear more about how Trout hasn't made the Angels a better team.

A day will come when these superman-like powers aren't applied to sports athletes. Hopefully. I guess it's fine if you want to believe that athletes have this super-human ability to make their teammates perform better. Maybe you need that to enjoy sports, for whatever reason. And that's great. But it's absolutely false. If it were true, no great athlete would ever play on a bad team.

Cabrera had that power as a rookie. Then he lost it He still didn't have it back his first year with the Tigers, but then it came back again eventually.

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Hoodwinked by Buddha again.

I only listen to Buddha when he is talking politics or Hall of Fame. :rambo:

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Cabrera is epic and I love him to death....but Trout is a better player and produces more value to the team. And there's no doubt that trading Cabrera for Trout would add performance and FWIW save $$. That having been said I would be personally very sad to see that deal made.

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The only place Miguel Cabrera is going is to Cooperstown in a Tigers hat.

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Cabrera is epic and I love him to death....but Trout is a better player and produces more value to the team. And there's no doubt that trading Cabrera for Trout would add performance and FWIW save $$. That having been said I would be personally very sad to see that deal made.

I imagine it would be much like the Granderson trade though. After watching Trout for a couple months, we'd be talking about wanting him to go to the HOF in a Tigers hat and all of that.

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Cabrera is epic and I love him to death....but Trout is a better player and produces more value to the team. And there's no doubt that trading Cabrera for Trout would add performance and FWIW save $$. That having been said I would be personally very sad to see that deal made.

I'd love to see that deal made. I like Cabrera a lot, but Trout is younger and better and I'm pretty sure I'd learn to like him pretty fast. I've always admired players that excelled in all phases of the game. McCutchen is another favorite of mine.

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