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Debt Ceiling Showdown (the Oct 2013 edition)

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I just thought that this deserved it's own thread. The rhetoric is starting to heat up in DC, and if past is prologue, it will ratchet up at MTS as well.

So the first volley is charges of extortion. hmmm.

Obama to rivals: don't extort over budget, debt ceiling

I think this 4th quarter in DC is going to be a lot of fun to observe as a political junkie, even if the chaos is potentially pretty bad for the country/economy.

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I just thought that this deserved it's own thread. The rhetoric is starting to heat up in DC, and if past is prologue, it will ratchet up at MTS as well.

So the first volley is charges of extortion. hmmm.

Obama to rivals: don't extort over budget, debt ceiling

Well I don't know, I think it's already settled after the lunatic who now inhabits the Federal Reserve just refused to pull the 85 billion a month punchbowl away. That means he will be buying about half of that as US debt, or treasury paper, until who knows when.

So apparently these morons in congress missed that newsflash because that's money they haven't even spent yet, but will (and come on - they know this). Which makes this all Kabuki, like the other 60 some times in history they have done it (raise the debt limit).

But on the good side, that 85 billion will sure help the 401k plans of the people who are on welfare and food stamps, but 6 dollar gas and $4.50 milk might not set too well if they happen to notice.

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House votes to derail Obamacare, fund government

House votes to derail Obamacare, fund government

yada yada yada, here we go again.

What I found interesting was this comment:

"If Congress doesn't pass this debt ceiling in the next few weeks, the United States will default on its obligations. That's never happened in American history. Basically, America becomes a deadbeat," Obama said.

I think this kind of pointed comment, that we are a deadbeat if we don't raise the debt limit to pay our obligations worked well 20 years ago. I don't know that it really resonates with people in the same way today. Some people it will, but a majority of people? You really have a lot of folks who have declared bankruptcy, foreclosed homes, shortsold homes, defaulted on credit cards or car loans, over the last 5 years. I think there's been a real change in mentality with how people view debt now. And defaulting on a debt that people either see as "not theirs" or simply such an unfathomable number, its something that most people care much about. In my opinion, most people only care to the extent that it has a direct and personal impact on their lives. And the concept of a debt default increasing interest rates, which will filter down to everyone in some form or another, is not direct enough for people to be concerned about it. Or majority of people to be concerned about it.

Another comment would be, the more times we walk up to the "cliff" and then don't fall off it, the more desensitized everyone becomes to the whole agrument. A week and a half away from a governtment shutdown, and it was the only thing in the news, in 2011. A week and a half to a government shutdown in 2013, and it's hardly front page news and no one is really talking about it very much.

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Traditional and moderate Republicans up for election next year will definitely cave. TEApublicans will not cave.

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But it's all good. I have read about the platinum coin again already. I love monetary fairy tales.

instead of minting a coin, they should just declare that a piece of gravel is worth a trillion dollars

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Traditional and moderate Republicans up for election next year will definitely cave. TEApublicans will not cave.

If Pelosi were interested in serving the country she could probably engineer an end to this ridiculousness by offering to support Boehner in the leadership vote he knows he would have to face if he were to cross the Tea-Party by just doing the country's business and letting legislation come up for simple majority votes in the House (now what a concept *that* would be in a democracy - lol wut!). In effect it would be the formation of a new 'compromise and govern' party in the House at least until the 2014 election sorts things out (or screws them up more).

Give Mr "all I ever wanted in life is a sun tan a blow dry and that big gavel in my hand" a way to stay Speaker and the country could probably half function for a while.

But it can't happen. None of them understand any concept of 'public interest' beyond that they are certain the world as *we* know it would end if *their* next re-election bid fails.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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There are enough votes in the house to pass a clean debt ceiling bill. Boner will end up doing it, this is just him being a bronzed tuffguy so that the tea sharty thinks he's pure for like 10 mins. To bad the rest of us have to endure this pile of crap

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I'm so glad the GOP is stumbling over itself trying to appease a group that's less popular than syphillis. That's how you lose 5 of the last 6 popular votes.

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I'm so glad the GOP is stumbling over itself trying to appease a group that's less popular than syphillis. That's how you lose 5 of the last 6 popular votes.

Hey, don't bad mouth Syphillis like that, it's popularity is at least moving the opposite way from Congress's.

from the CDC:

Although the rate of P&S syphilis in the United States declined 89.7% during 1990–2000, the rate increased annually during 2001–2009

of course, I blame Bush.

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I'm so glad the GOP is stumbling over itself trying to appease a group that's less popular than syphillis. That's how you lose 5 of the last 6 popular votes.

And I am happy to watch the left, the champion of minority rights, subject those they dislike to such vitriol. The whole thing is a parade of hypocrisy, starting with the White House which picks and chooses what part of the health care bill is binding law and who can be exempt.

For the record, I am not and never have been a member of the Comm...I mean Tea Party.

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And I am happy to watch the left, the champion of minority rights, subject those they dislike to such vitriol. The whole thing is a parade of hypocrisy, starting with the White House which picks and chooses what part of the health care bill is binding law and who can be exempt.

For the record, I am not and never have been a member of the Comm...I mean Tea Party.

I agree, they should change their strategy, as winning 5 of the last 6 popular votes is weak

Matt Millen thinks that record sucks

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I agree, they should change their strategy, as winning 5 of the last 6 popular votes is weak

Matt Millen thinks that record sucks

Now that you put it that way it makes sense...I've never thought the popular kids were that compelling :)

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Senator Banama Republic:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I, therefore, intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt.

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/barackobam417354.html#m1YKy9AHuWCBjiPv.99

President Banama Republic:

"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt; - See more at: http://www.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/craig-bannister/obama-raising-debt-ceilingdoes-not-increase-our-debt-though-it-has-over#sthash.1g5nbayi.dpuf

"You have never seen in the history of the United States ... the threat of not raising the debt ceiling being used to extort a president or a governing party, and trying to force issues that have nothing to do with the budget and have nothing to do with the debt,"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/18/obama-debt-ceiling_n_3948809.html

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Senator Banama Republic:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I, therefore, intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt.

Read more at The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of... - Barack Obama at BrainyQuote

President Banama Republic:

"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt; - See more at: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase Our Debt,' Though It Has 'Over 100 Times' | CNS News

"You have never seen in the history of the United States ... the threat of not raising the debt ceiling being used to extort a president or a governing party, and trying to force issues that have nothing to do with the budget and have nothing to do with the debt,"

Obama Accuses Republicans Of Extortion Over Raising The Debt Ceiling

This is precisely what I mean when I say politics is what's wrong with this country. The line there that really burns my bacon is this -

"I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up..."

I believe this cuts to the heart of what makes this president tick. For all his talk about fighting against the rich, he is an elitist. He believes he's smarter than everyone else. That's why we've gotten nothing but blame for 5 years. It must be someone else's fault. This view also presents a very low view of the people. Whatever helps the party .. screw the people.

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This is precisely what I mean when I say politics is what's wrong with this country. The line there that really burns my bacon is this -

"I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up..."

I believe this cuts to the heart of what makes this president tick. For all his talk about fighting against the rich, he is an elitist. He believes he's smarter than everyone else. That's why we've gotten nothing but blame for 5 years. It must be someone else's fault. This view also presents a very low view of the people. Whatever helps the party .. screw the people.

Can you give an example of his talk about fighting against the rich?

And if we've gotten nothing, why does the right care so much about Obamacarenothing?

And, a lot of things are the GOP's fault. Would you prefer he just lie then tell the truth?

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There's something not quite right with POTUS.... mental health-wise. I'll feel better with Hillary in charge.

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There's something not quite right with POTUS.... mental health-wise. I'll feel better with Hillary in charge.

I suspect in 2017, the same level of histrionics you show towards the current POTUS will be directed towards the next POTUS, if it indeed turns out being Hillary Clinton.

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This is precisely what I mean when I say politics is what's wrong with this country. The line there that really burns my bacon is this -

"I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up..."

I believe this cuts to the heart of what makes this president tick. For all his talk about fighting against the rich, he is an elitist. He believes he's smarter than everyone else. That's why we've gotten nothing but blame for 5 years. It must be someone else's fault. This view also presents a very low view of the people. Whatever helps the party .. screw the people.

No offense, Dennis, but if that's the view that you take of the actions of the Democratic Party and Barack Obama over the past five years, you need to take a hard look at the actions of the GOP over the past five years. They have continually used fears on social issues like abortion and gay marriage and have used them as campaign rhetoric to conceal the fact that they are no better fiscally than the Democrats and are much more at odds with the best economic interests of the average American.

The fact that they engage the American people in such a fashion, THAT is a low view of the people. And make no mistake about it, that's exactly what they do.

Both parties aren't all that great at this point and I believe, overall, that Barack Obama hasn't been a very good President. But by no means will I accept the notion that the GOP is somehow the lesser of two evils. They engage in cynical political chicanery that uses controversial issues to keep their voters in line while legislating against them in the process.

Edited by mtutiger

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