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Hunter talks about Fielder's slump

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I also wonder if he thought that he and Cabrera would be a pair of stars/team leaders, and whether it bothers him at all - or maybe as you suggest - he has any regrets about being here - now that Cabrera has left everyone, including Prince, in the dust at a lower level.

I think him coming here opened up a lot of wounds regarding him and his old man.

Also, he was part of the Brewers semi-resurgence and was a fan favorite. He and Braun seemed to have great chemistry, that whole team for awhile there seemed like a very fun clubhouse.

Come to Detroit and get awarded a huge contract and all of a sudden some of that fun...that...(I cringe to say it)... innocence, was lost.

Your biggest co-stars are a player who is a lot of fun on the field but there's a language barrier and probably not as easy to connect with off the field.

The other co-star is a pitcher. Probably a bit of an arrogant one. And he's a pitcher.

I don't think he has any regrets coming here, but the scenario certainly isn't as fun. I'm not saying that has anything to do at all with his performance - he was very good last year. I expect him to be very good in the future. I don't like playing armchair therapist and I'm not very good at it anyways so who knows. But I don't think this all has had zero effect on him. Nobody is that bulletproof, no matter what Keith Law thinks. I like Keith Law but he projects his robotic psyche onto every player in the league simply because they were good enough to make it to the show.

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Nobody is that bulletproof, no matter what Keith Law thinks. I like Keith Law but he projects his robotic psyche onto every player in the league simply because they were good enough to make it to the show.

Do you think Keith Law should starting adding a psychological component to his projections?

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Do you think Keith Law should starting adding a psychological component to his projections?

smart organizations do that but they do it on the downlow. Not sure if player evaluations that make it to the internet do that.

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Do you think Keith Law should starting adding a psychological component to his projections?

but he'd have to adjust it for the Tigers because he hates them

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smart organizations do that but they do it on the downlow. Not sure if player evaluations that make it to the internet do that.

I think all professional talent evaluators, whether they are reporters or front office people, take everything into account that they can find out. Law talks to plenty of scouts and front office people to help form his opinion. I'm sure if a guy is a head case he takes it into account.

I'm guessing it isn't explicitly mentioned in a write up, but rather as background regarding an opinion of whether performance will translate to higher levels.

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Do you think Keith Law should starting adding a psychological component to his projections?

I would think it's already part of most scouts' analyses, but Klaw often comes off as suggesting that anyone in the bigs has a 70-80 psyche tool.

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I think all professional talent evaluators, whether they are reporters or front office people, take everything into account that they can find out. Law talks to plenty of scouts and front office people to help form his opinion. I'm sure if a guy is a head case he takes it into account.

I'm guessing it isn't explicitly mentioned in a write up, but rather as background regarding an opinion of whether performance will translate to higher levels.

In one organization I was in a colleague had a T-shirt that had his Myers-Briggs score on it and had

"She married me for my P-ness"

600px-CognitiveFunctions.png

(which refers to the Perception side of Judgement or Perception as regards decision-making)

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I would think it's already part of most scouts' analyses, but Klaw often comes off as suggesting that anyone in the bigs has a 70-80 psyche tool.

I don't think he comes off that way at all. He comes off to me as someone who is pretty progressive, so I would be surprised if he was suggesting that all big leaguers were free of psychological issues.

He might downplay the concept of a clutch hitter or a guy that can raise his mental game on a whim. That's not the same thing.

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.... I like Keith Law but he projects his robotic psyche onto every player in the league simply because they were good enough to make it to the show.

There is a certain amount of truth in the fact that everyone can be good occasionally, and to a large degree, it is exactly consistency which marks guys who rise to the pro level. A big part of that consistency is the ability to block out all the distractions and bring your A game every single day/AB/pitch etc. So I don't argue that pro athletes in general probably have a very high tolerance for life distraction. But that said, everyone has their limit - and everyone who has studied this kind of thing finds that unexpected deaths of loved ones and divorces are sort of in a class by themselves in terms of their potential to upset people's equilibria. Heck Michael Jordan couldn't play basketball after his father died!

And in an example closer to home, last year everyone seemed to take it as accepted wisdom that Max was extraordinary in his ability to pitch well through the loss of a brother. To do that and then turn around and question that Prince would be affected by a divorce - which (of course depending on family dynamics we may not know) could easily strike much closer to emotional home than the loss of an adult sibling, is contradictory.

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smart organizations do that but they do it on the downlow. Not sure if player evaluations that make it to the internet do that.

They do that for player selection and retention and promotion within the system as part of scouting. I'm not sure the analysts who make statistical projections use that as part of their criteria.

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There is a certain amount of truth in the fact that everyone can be good occasionally, and to a large degree, it is exactly consistency which marks guys who rise to the pro level. A big part of that consistency is the ability to block out all the distractions and bring your A game every single day/AB/pitch etc. So I don't argue that pro athletes in general probably have a very high tolerance for life distraction. But that said, everyone has their limit - and everyone who has studied this kind of thing finds that unexpected deaths of loved ones and divorces are sort of in a class by themselves in terms of their potential to upset people's equilibria. Heck Michael Jordan couldn't play basketball after his father died!

And in an example closer to home, last year everyone seemed to take it as accepted wisdom that Max was extraordinary in his ability to pitch well through the loss of a brother. To do that and then turn around and question that Prince would be affected by a divorce - which (of course depending on family dynamics we may not know) could easily strike much closer to emotional home than the loss of an adult sibling, is contradictory.

There is no doubt that off the field events can affect players in very different ways, but is it possible to predict with any accuracy how a particular player is going to respond?

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... but is it possible to predict with any accuracy how a particular player is going to respond?

Of course not. But in Prince's case we are not being asked to predict, we are looking at two events that have already happened (his divorce and a two month slump - which happily he does seem to be coming out of) and are connected in time series and then speculating on the likelihood of the causal connection.

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I don't think he comes off that way at all. He comes off to me as someone who is pretty progressive, so I would be surprised if he was suggesting that all big leaguers were free of psychological issues.

He might downplay the concept of a clutch hitter or a guy that can raise his mental game on a whim. That's not the same thing.

I also don't think he has a robotic persona. He is actually kind of snarky and sometimes seems to enjoy getting people worked up.

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Of course not. But in Prince's case we are not being asked to predict, we are looking at two events that have already happened (his divorce and a two month slump - which happily he does seem to be coming out of) and are connected in time series and then speculating on the likelihood of the causal connection.

sorry, I got a little off track in this thread.

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Actually, we should respect Prince's psychological toughness for playing through. I definitely have new respect for Miguel Cabrera after seeing him struggle with this injury. This 2013 team is shall we say, gritty.

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I read one of the first editions of this book, excellent read and several organizations use this or something similar.

Brain Typing and Your Key To Sports Success –

On hold for latest edition release.

Your Key To Sports Success (YKTSS) helps you (or perhaps your child) to determine one’s individual Brain Type…providing specific steps for how to maximize athletic potential.

“I really enjoy talking to Jon. The next best thing is reading his book, ‘Your Key to Sports Success‘. I find Brain Typing not only fascinating, but very accurate. I wish I had this information when I was playing. I use it now to help me evaluate and develop talent.”

- Kevin McHale, Minnesota Timberwolves V.P. of Operations, former NBA All-Star

- See more at: BT Learning Store | BrainTypes.com

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Sometimes we as fans forget the players are just like us. They may make a lot more money, but they have the same ups and downs we all do with our family and friends, personal issues from our past, fear about the future, etc. Often times money creates more problems when you are expected to provide for everyone in your circle.

Prince had a rough stretch, and I can understand why. Divorce can be a horrible process. I have no doubt he is working his tail off to get out of the slump, and I hope the home run last night helps him and he can clear his mind for the remainder of the season. I think we have all seen our production at work decrease for a bit after a family tragedy or issue, very few people are at their best professionally when they are at their worst personally.

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Sometimes we as fans forget the players are just like us. They may make a lot more money, but they have the same ups and downs we all do with our family and friends, personal issues from our past, fear about the future, etc. Often times money creates more problems when you are expected to provide for everyone in your circle.

Prince had a rough stretch, and I can understand why. Divorce can be a horrible process. I have no doubt he is working his tail off to get out of the slump, and I hope the home run last night helps him and he can clear his mind for the remainder of the season. I think we have all seen our production at work decrease for a bit after a family tragedy or issue, very few people are at their best professionally when they are at their worst personally.

I don't think you can say "very few". Some people do better professionally when they have a difficult personal issue because they use it as an escape. Others are are able to separate the personal from professional and are unaffected. Also, some people perform poorly professionally without having anything bad happening personally. So, while I am am very understanding if the divorce is affecting his play, I'm not assuming that is the reason for his sub-par play.

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I also don't think he has a robotic persona. He is actually kind of snarky and sometimes seems to enjoy getting people worked up.

I agree, I think I worded my post poorly. Klaw is one of my favorites. His snark, intelligence, and ability to be a master troll to easy targets are quite refreshing. I just get the impression from the years of listening to him and reading his articles that he sees players at the MLB level as possessing unwavering stoicism; that it is a prerequisite for making it at this level. I believe players can get "in the zone" sometimes and don't think it has to be an after-the-fact observation; same with slumps. Sometimes, perhaps most times the results are a product of normal luck and skill, but I think players and people can tell sometimes if they're having an "on" day or an "off" day/week/phase. We all do.

I've seen him make comments that diverge from what I just said - two examples I can remember are Brandon Belt and Justin Upton. Belt was having a rough rookie season and Law said he believe part of the struggle was the uncertainty Belt had about his role and how he may have been forcing it. He also said Upton's poor performance in Arizona last year was likely to be in part caused by clubhouse turmoil.

Both things sounded very un-Klaw like, but both I found to be acceptable explanations.

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If you think that is true then the argument can be made for anyone who has ever left the comfort of their home...and you may even be able to go as far as making an argument if you keep your windows open and have never stepped out the front door.

There is a sizable minority of people who do make that argument. I am not among them, but I've heard it expressed pretty frequently both in general conversation and on the internet.

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I don't really think his personal life is affecting his performance enough to explain such a significant drop in production. I think it is just a slump.

I'm not saying that personal issues can't affect performance. It's a tough game that requires extreme concentration.

If he is standing in the batter's box and thinking about what his lawyer filed that day instead of focusing on the pitcher, fine. I find that hard to believe.

I don't think his divorce is causing him to swing at pitches out of the zone, or limiting his ability to hit for power.

If anything, his sub par performance is frustrating him and he's trying to make something happen.

I'd like to say I'm surprised that people actually think he is OPSing in the 700s because he filed for divorce in may, but I'm not really surprised.

I'm 96% sure that his struggles have nothin to do with his personal life.

As I said I don't have a clue, but it seems reasonable to me that a major life change can contribute to a bad year ("causing" I think is far too strong a term IMHO).

Expiring contracts have been shown to correlate with substantial changes in performance for the year of expirations, so it stands to reason that negative circumstances can affect performance too. Yes, I understand the difference between correlation and causation, and no, I have no data linking divorce to bad seasons (didn't even look).

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As I said I don't have a clue, but it seems reasonable to me that a major life change can contribute to a bad year ("causing" I think is far too strong a term IMHO).

Expiring contracts have been shown to correlate with substantial changes in performance for the year of expirations, so it stands to reason that negative circumstances can affect performance too. Yes, I understand the difference between correlation and causation, and no, I have no data linking divorce to bad seasons (didn't even look).

Agreed. Of course it could affect his game. Was Tiger Woods thinking of it every shot?

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As I said I don't have a clue, but it seems reasonable to me that a major life change can contribute to a bad year ("causing" I think is far too strong a term IMHO).

Expiring contracts have been shown to correlate with substantial changes in performance for the year of expirations, so it stands to reason that negative circumstances can affect performance too. Yes, I understand the difference between correlation and causation, and no, I have no data linking divorce to bad seasons (didn't even look).

Frank Thomas had a decline around his divorce. His power and OPS decreased in a 2 year period around his divorce and he was around the same age as Fielder. Of course a decrease for Thomas was OPS of 850 instead of over 1.000. In 1999 Thomas hit 15 home runs in 590 plate appearances.

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