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A. Garcia & B. Villarreal for Jose Iglesias (confirmed)

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I would say Jose has good, but not great, foot speed.

I have not seen enough of his baserunning to qualify how good of a baserunner he is, but given his speed it is possible he is an excellent baserunner and an average base stealer.

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I was gonna ask him if he was his father.

I think I heard Caspers dad beat up Iggys dad because tigers fans liked Iggy more.

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AJax is very fast on a flat out run. There are not a lot of guy fasters 1st to Home on a double either, but stealing requires great acceleration and ability to read pitchers, both of which AJ lacks; he has never and will never be a big SB threat. Compare his body type to Ricky Henderson for example. AJ is lithe but doesn't have the kind of muscle mass in his legs typical of a great sprinter./base stealer.

jackson is not "very fast", he's a tad above average for his position. He's also slow out of the box.

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jackson is not "very fast", he's a tad above average for his position. He's also slow out of the box.

He quite slow out of the box because of his batting style. A tad above average for CFs is pretty fast for baseball players as whole.

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He quite slow out of the box because of his batting style. A tad above average for CFs is pretty fast for baseball players as whole.

True! I would never describe him as very fast, though. His speed is overstated.

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AJax is very fast on a flat out run. There are not a lot of guy fasters 1st to Home on a double either, but stealing requires great acceleration and ability to read pitchers, both of which AJ lacks; he has never and will never be a big SB threat. Compare his body type to Ricky Henderson for example. AJ is lithe but doesn't have the kind of muscle mass in his legs typical of a great sprinter./base stealer.

Igleasias has played more that 3 years in the high minors, hasn't stolen more than 15 in a year and has been thrown out at a 30% rate. Iglesias gets rid of the bat and gets started down the line extremely fast for a RH hitter and thus makes very good times to 1st. That should be some of the same talent needed to be a better base stealer, but his minor league record pretty much precludes the possibility that he is going to be anything more than an occasional base stealer now since he is facing better catchers and pitchers. That Mario and Rod even talk about him being a SB threat is a measure of how little homework they do.

Nobody on a Leyland team is ever -- ever -- going to steal more than 25 bases a year.

Q. Berry was 22-22 and Leyland acted like he was gonna fine him for stealing the bases.

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Nobody on a Leyland team is ever -- ever -- going to steal more than 25 bases a year.

....

So that's what JL was so mad at Barry Bonds about in those Youtube clips. Who knew? :laugh::silly::laugh:

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Nobody on a Leyland team is ever -- ever -- going to steal more than 25 bases a year.

Q. Berry was 22-22 and Leyland acted like he was gonna fine him for stealing the bases.

12 teams out of 21 Leyland has managed have had at least one guy steal 25 bases, and one of the teams that failed to do it was in the strike shortened year and the Pirates had a guy on pace for 25. 4 of his teams had two men steal 25 bases, and Jay Bell stole 71 bases in 96 (and was only caught 6 times - WOW).

So it seems to me more of a personnel thing than anything. Jackson and Granderson both stole 25 bases as Tigers and had other seasons of 20. Carlos Guillen and Quintin Berry also nabbed 20 with Leyland as a manager.

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12 teams out of 21 Leyland has managed have had at least one guy steal 25 bases, and one of the teams that failed to do it was in the strike shortened year and the Pirates had a guy on pace for 25. 4 of his teams had two men steal 25 bases, and Jay Bell stole 71 bases in 96 (and was only caught 6 times - WOW).

So it seems to me more of a personnel thing than anything. Jackson and Granderson both stole 25 bases as Tigers and had other seasons of 20. Carlos Guillen and Quintin Berry also nabbed 20 with Leyland as a manager.

You forgot a 38 year old Gary Sheffield who stole 20. This criticism about Leyland teams not stealing is ridiculous. You can't steal bases if you have nobody who can steal. If he ran more the same people would be complaining about Leyland running into outs.

*Edit* I think you are looking at the wrong lines on Jay Bell. He had 71 RBI and 6 SB.

Edited by Motown Bombers

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Times they are a-changing. Sabers believe base stealing is a waste unless you succeed 80%+ of the time, so as sabers get more influence, base stealing is disappearing.

In the 70s and early 80s the early sabers thought base stealing was great and everybody wanted somebody who could steal 40-50 or more, but analysis showed the benefit in run production was minimal so over time the consensus changed to the point that base stealing is mostly a waste of outs.

Edited by TJ

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This is ridiculous. The sabers liked Trout over Cabrera for MVP because of his base running and defense.

Base running is not the as stealing. In addition to his bad running, trout had a ridiculously excellent SB/CS ratio, so the sabers loved it.

But sabers hate SBs that are coupled with too many CS.

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This is ridiculous. The sabers liked Trout over Cabrera for MVP because of his base running and defense.

Sabers liked Trout because his hitting + baserunning + defense output was better than Miguel Cabrera's hitting + baserunning + defense output.

I don't think many of those same sabers would say that Trout delivered more wins at the plate than Cabrera. But Trout won more games with his baserunning + defense than Cabrera did with his, and it more than made up the difference at the plate. That's what the argument is.

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Times they are a-changing. Sabers believe base stealing is a waste unless you succeed 80%+ of the time, so as sabers get more influence, base stealing is disappearing.

it's not 80%. It's more like 70%.

Base stealing is not as common now because teams like to pick their spots more and not throw away outs on the bases in an era where so any home runs are hit. I think you are overstating the influence of sabers, but if they have something to do with eliminating reckless base running, that's a good thing.

In the 70s and early 80s the early sabers thought base stealing was great and everybody wanted somebody who could steal 40-50 or more, but analysis showed the benefit in run production was minimal so over time the consensus changed to the point that base stealing is mostly a waste of outs.

I don't think it was ever true that sabers thought SB were great (not when combined with high CS rates). The prominent sabers of that period like James and Palmer felt that stolen bases were less valuable than perceived by people in the game.

Edited by tiger337

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Villareal was recalled by the redsox after 2 innings in low-A and 2 innings in AAA. Seems questionable to me.

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My thing with stolen bases is that you don't want first base open with Cabrera coming up, at least not with Prince doing jack **** this year. I recall at least once last year where Berry was batting second and he took the bat out of Cabrera's hands. Not good.

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it's not 80%. It's more like 70%.

Base stealing is not as common now because teams like to pick their spots more and not throw away outs on the bases in an era where so any home runs are hit. I think you are overstating the influence of sabers, but if they have something to do with eliminating reckless base running, that's a good thing.

I don't think it was ever true that sabers thought SB were great (not when combined with high CS rates). The prominent sabers of that period like James and Palmer felt that stolen bases were less valuable than perceived by people in the game.

I think in the 70s you just had a lot of artificial turf, which meant a lot of guys who could run fast enough to beat out high choppers made it to the big leagues. That kind of speed also meant they could steal bases, and since they often had no power, that was the best way to get them to 2nd. You don't see too many Willie Wilson type hitters in the league now that most fields are back to grass or less elastic artificial surfaces.

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I think in the 70s you just had a lot of artificial turf, which meant a lot of guys who could run fast enough to beat out high choppers made it to the big leagues. That kind of speed also meant they could steal bases, and since they often had no power, that was the best way to get them to 2nd. You don't see too many Willie Wilson type hitters in the league now that most fields are back to grass or less elastic artificial surfaces.

yeah, it was a different game back then. I used to enjoy the base running speed that artificial turf brought to the game, but didn't like the artificial bounces off the turf.

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yeah, it was a different game back then. I used to enjoy the base running speed that artificial turf brought to the game, but didn't like the artificial bounces off the turf.

I never got used to looking at fields with no dirt though. And come to mention it, those fields that were artificial turf IF between sliding boxes were probably worth at least half a step to a stealing runner also.

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I never got used to looking at fields with no dirt though. And come to mention it, those fields that were artificial turf IF between sliding boxes were probably worth at least half a step to a stealing runner also.

The fields along with the cookie cutter parks were ugly. I just liked the fact that they attracted some speedsters. There seemed to be a greater variety of players during that period.

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1961 is still one of my favorite "seasons", home runs galore and lots of offense in general and then came the "new" round stadiums with artificial turf and raised mound height...aaarrrrgh! BTW...my favorite "play" is the walk-off home run...Miggy!!! IMHO, unless something drastically changes, Miggy should have the MVP locked-up.

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Villarreal made his first appearance for Boston today, tie game, bottom 9, bases loaded, two out. Walked in the walk off. I like this trade 50% more.

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