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isn't it incorrect to say they're spending $285 million in public funding to finance a hockey arena? The hockey arena is just one piece of the entire project.

How many events does JLA have in a year? I would assume the new arena would have more than that. It's not just hockey.

I can understand the idea that no public money should be used for this stuff but right now we do have a DDA and they are and still do collect taxes from businesses to do this type of thing so if it's going to be done then I'd like it to be done on big projects like this. Right now we have a bunch of empty lots and buildings in that area and we have good activity north and south. Are there alternatives to using that money?

I would have to think that a new arena would have a decent chance of attracting many concerts currently playing at the Palace.

The replacement of the Joe should open the door for Cobo to be upgraded as a convention centre facility, so that's a positive as well. Attracting conventions is a highly competitive but potentially lucrative business.

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I would have to think that a new arena would have a decent chance of attracting many concerts currently playing at the Palace.

The replacement of the Joe should open the door for Cobo to be upgraded as a convention centre facility, so that's a positive as well. Attracting conventions is a highly competitive but potentially lucrative business.

The Cobo expansion is being over looked in this whole thing IMO..they have been renovating for 3 years and have phase 3 scheduled for completion in 2015:

COBO Center - Detroit Michigan :: Renovation Update

Renovation Budget: $299 million

Construction scheduled in three phases:

Phase 1, $3.25 million - COMPLETED January 2010

Phase 2, $46.94 million - COMPLETED January 2012

Phase 3, $228.8 million - Scheduled completion January 2015 with some parts available before

$20 million - 30 year Capital Lease, City of Detroit

Does that time frame make it possible for this whole thing to merge together?

I mean if they start construction within the next couple months on the new Joe I would guess it would be ready for the 2015 season, but the above Cobo info says phase 3 of the cobo renovation will be complete by 1/2015.

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Based on the above picture it does not look like it expands far enough to include the Joe. I wonder if that planned expansion will come out as a phase 4 in 2016/2017 time frame?

Demolish the Joe after they open the new one, get all the deeds/paperwork in order for the additional expansion and then use the vacant land to renovate that whole area.

I drive downtown alot and usually come up 10/Jefferson and I have to say a complete renovation of that area to make it look nicer would go a long way IMO. That whole area right around the Joe and the Lodge is all crappy looking. I would LOVE to see that whole area redone. Highways/tunnels...the whole thing.

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I know they have had long term plans to connect the riverwalk to the Ambassador Bridge so even if the JLA site is not incorporated into a Cobo Convention center even knocking it down to turn into a park area would be nice.

THe planners really screwed up back in the 70's in that area and the REn Cen by making it all into cement fortresses, blocking the riverfront area.

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I know they have had long term plans to connect the riverwalk to the Ambassador Bridge so even if the JLA site is not incorporated into a Cobo Convention center even knocking it down to turn into a park area would be nice.

THe planners really screwed up back in the 70's in that area and the REn Cen by making it all into cement fortresses, blocking the riverfront area.

The potential down there is astounding IMO. You have the infrastructure for the rail already there that stops at Rosa Parks Blvd...it would be nice if it extended further, but a passenger rail stop there after finalization of the River Walk area would generate a lot of interest....for me it would anyway. There is a new station going up on Michigan ave that I have been following closely the past 2 years or so....if they had a stop downtown from that Dearborn station I would be downtown even more than I am now.

So much potential.

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I would have to think that a new arena would have a decent chance of attracting many concerts currently playing at the Palace.

A concert venue other than Comerica Park would lead to less trips to Ace Hardware by Rod Allen who is obviously just a puppet for an embarrassed Heather Nabonzy.

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Weird that this guy is opposing it. The arena would be closer to his building thus generating more revenue for the building I would assume:

Detroit City Council hears mixed reaction to new Red Wings arena, redevelopment | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Gerald Belanger, who owns the building that houses Bucharest Grill, the Park Bar and Cliff Bells, is adamantly opposed to proposals made by the Detroit Economic Growth Corp. to move a new Red Wings arena and entertainment district forward. Belanger spoke out Thursday at a Detroit City Council meeting at the Coleman A. Young Municipal Center. / Mandi Wright/Detroit Free Press

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Sounds like a good ol fashion whiner. Maybe the Illitch family does not send him a Christmas card.

Jerry Belanger, who owns buildings that house Cliff Bell’s jazz club, the Park Bar and Bucharest Grill, expressed resentment that the Ilitch organization has bought up downtown properties west of Woodward and let them sit idle and deteriorate for years, or demolished historic buildings, leaving other entrepreneurs out of the mix.

“I am in the largest sea of blight in the city of Detroit,” Belanger said. “This whole thing is a sham. The DDA has not talked to a lot of entrepreneurs. They’re representing one family in all of this.”

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Bucharest Grill? Is there really a market for Romanian cuisine in Detroit? I heard of Cliff Bell's before. It is true that Illitch has hoarded property and let it rot. He's a couple notches above Matty Mouron since he renovated the Fox and is a good sports owner.

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Honestly, it looks incredible. Hope it all goes to plan.

I find it funny and tragic that Mr. I is spending 200 million of his cash on stuff like street lamps, sidewalks and other things that the state should be doing themselves.

200 Million is also what Disneyland spent on the new Cars themed attraction in California Adventure. So, 200 million in Detroit gets you a new hockey arena and 5 blighted neighborhoods turned into gold, and in Disneyland it buys you 4 minutes and 30 seconds of an amusement park ride. Sweet.

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It looks like they are going to cantilever the 2nd tier in closer to the ice, not to the degree Olympia did, but at least more than the straight single bowl design of many current arenas. The front row of the upper deck at Olympia was actually so far out it was over the player benches, which made those seats pretty awesome, (much like the upper deck boxes at Tiger Stadium).

With the Coba rennovation and the extensions of the River walk, tearing down Joe Louis is the perfect thing to open up a little public/green space on the west side of things.

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Honestly, it looks incredible. Hope it all goes to plan.

I find it funny and tragic that Mr. I is spending 200 million of his cash on stuff like street lamps, sidewalks and other things that the state should be doing themselves.

200 Million is also what Disneyland spent on the new Cars themed attraction in California Adventure. So, 200 million in Detroit gets you a new hockey arena and 5 blighted neighborhoods turned into gold, and in Disneyland it buys you 4 minutes and 30 seconds of an amusement park ride. Sweet.

The 200 million does not include the arena. The arena is 450 million. The total project is 650 million.

Considering it is Illitch, I expect an arena and a bunch of surface parking.

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Still think it is voodoo economics and a misguided use of public funds. But I have said my piece and I am neither a Detroit nor Michigan taxpayer or resident. So speaking purely as a Wings fan ...looks great. I will miss The Joe for about 20 minutes.

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You and me both.

:silly:

Speaking of 20 minutes, I ragged on Tiger Stadium in the other thread, but the Joe was out of date about 20 minutes after opening.

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Speaking of 20 minutes, I ragged on Tiger Stadium in the other thread, but the Joe was out of date about 20 minutes after opening.

Yeah, kinduv like the Skydome that way.

By the early-mid '90s nice modern-era arenas were being built in Anaheim, San Jose, Vancouver and elsewhere. I wonder if The Olympia could have lasted another 12-15 years. It was 2 years newer than the Montreal Forum which lasted until 1996. It was just 4 years older than Maple Leaf Gardens which lasted until 1999. I just vaguely remember it, only going to a few games there. And I don't recall the political issues surrounding the construction of The Joe - that was the era of the RenCen, Coleman Young, the Lions to the Silverdome etc. so I'm sure they were plentiful.

Edited by lordstanley

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Yeah, kinduv like the Skydome that way.

By the early-mid '90s nice modern-era arenas were being built in Anaheim, San Jose, Vancouver and elsewhere. I wonder if The Olympia could have lasted another 12-15 years. I just vaguely remember it, only going to a few games there. And I don't recall the political issues surrounding the construction of The Joe - that was the era of the RenCen, Coleman Young, the Lions to the Silverdome etc. so I'm sure they were plentiful.

Olympia was pretty horrible other than in the seats watching the game. The concourses under the lower bowl were so narrow there is no way they met any modern fire codes. There were so few concessions for the upper deck that they would just stick a keg on the floor of at the top of an aisle to peddle beer. But maybe the biggest problem was that the neighborhood had collapsed to where no-one wanted to go there. It was pretty much an island there at McGraw and Grand River by the time JL was built.

But man, what a place to watch a game. The upper deck was simply outstanding.

The other thing I will always remember about Olympia was the pre TV lighting. They used these hanging fixtures, basically just a big conical steel shade hanging at the end of a wire, and each held a 750Watt incandescent light bulb about the size of a bowling ball. Maybe 100 of them hanging from the catwalks in neat rows at exactly the same level. By the middle of the game all the cigarette smoke would start rising and the create an effect of all those lights suspended in a fog.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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So glad they didn't end up going with that "barn" look that I had seen around. That looked horrible. Retro works for baseball parks, but not any other sport.

They are calling the area The District? Really? All these minds can't come up with something better than that? How about something car-oriented like The Hub or The Wheel. The District is pretty lame.

Somewhere in that area with the 3 arenas there needs to be a Michigan Sports Walk Of Fame.

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So glad they didn't end up going with that "barn" look that I had seen around. That looked horrible. Retro works for baseball parks, but not any other sport.

They are calling the area The District? Really? All these minds can't come up with something better than that? How about something car-oriented like The Hub or The Wheel. The District is pretty lame.

Somewhere in that area with the 3 arenas there needs to be a Michigan Sports Walk Of Fame.

Columbia Street, Wildcat Corner, Cass Park Village and Columbia Park.

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Still have to get people, with kids, to want to live there. Not gonna work long-term if people don't want to stay. They need to put a police precinct there as well as ORDINARY places to shop, not just high-end places. They need to feature housing that working-class people can afford along with the higher end places.

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I sure hope it works but I'm skeptical of that much development paying off. Then again I've read that the price of lofts downtown is high because occupancy is so high. $2 a square foot is a price I saw.

With the M-1 rail this is a real chance to link mid town to downtown. Anyone drive through midtown lately? If you haven't within the last few years you'll be shocked.

As for the economics... I don't get riled up because it's complex and I don't understand it all. I look at Comerica Park on a Friday or Saturday night and the crowds around and I'm not convinced it's a bad thing that the public helped pay for it.

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