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.933 OPS...

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Originally posted by tigermojo

Less impressive are his 20 errors in 60 games.

True enuff. But I think it was his bat that got him sent down last year, more than his errors. + I think it is easier to correct his errors. If his .345 avg in winter ball can translate to a .275 average in the majors, he's worth a look.

I'm most impressed that he's kept that average up over 60 games, which is more than any other position player on his team.

I really think Omar might have turned a corner after being told he would not be brought up last September. Injuries forced that move, & he responded. His attitude was questioned @ AAA, & I think he may have finally realized that he has to earn his shot.

Of course, I could be making way to much of 3 weeks at the end of the season & winter ball, too.

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My guess is the fields they play on over there aren't in spectacular condition, so fielding would be a mute point over there. He's proved himself with the glove in the past. If anything, he gets lacadaisical out there, and needs to improve that. However, the only true thing that really matters with him is whether he's going to hit enough or not.

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What Cruzer said. He isn't playing on Major League fields - not by a long shot. I remember reading that Deivi Cruz was so "special" because he had good defense despite playing on the rocky infields of the Dominican League. No matter what Omar Infante does - he's starting the year in AAA Toledo. Hopefully he has the right attitude and keeps hitting, because even if we land Guillen, he'll miss enough games that we'll need to call up Infante rather than just toughing it out with Danny Klassen over an extended period. At least Infante is giving Dombrowski certain bargaining position - he doesn't have to look as desperate for a SS( Carlos Guillen) and teams can't take advantage of such a desperation by demanding too much in return, as we could always point to Infante and say we are more than willling to go with him if we have to.

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Infante obviously has some talent, but it's not translating to the major league level (yet). Hopefully he is given a year to develop at his own pace and will be ready to start for the Tigers in 2005.

OR BUST.

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I haven't given up on Omar...He has plenty of potential and the improved batting this winter is a good sign...The 20 errors in 60 games is a concern...hopefully that won't be a problem in Toledo...or Detroit...

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I too think Infante could still be a productive ballplayer. Some people have written him off way too early. He should not have been rushed to the Bigs as fast as he was. I mean he is only like 22 years old. His winter numbers are great. He had a lot of k's though, but he did lead the league in walks which really impresses me. I know it isn't against the greatest pitching but having being patient in a plus at any level.

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You will generally find that the players who draw the most walks also accumulate high strike out totals (Bonds excepted). The deeper you go in the count, the higher the chances you'll be fooled on a pitch, and, thus, strike out.

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Originally posted by Owen Wilson

You will generally find that the players who draw the most walks also accumulate high strike out totals (Bonds excepted). The deeper you go in the count, the higher the chances you'll be fooled on a pitch, and, thus, strike out.

I don't know about this. I'm dead tired at work right now so I'll wait for a stat geek to chime in here.

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http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/det/news/det_news.jsp?ymd=20040107&content_id=625996&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

DETROIT -- When you're batting .345, there's no such thing as too many at-bats in the Winter League.

A year ago, Omar Infante's winter season was done just after it began thanks to a strike in Venezuela. Now, the 22-year-old shortstop is the only Tiger still playing Winter Ball, leading his hometown Oriente Caribes into the Venezuelan League playoffs.

Months after barely claiming a .200 average between Detroit and Triple-A Toledo, Infante nearly claimed a batting title to bring back to the states this spring. His .343 average in 233 at-bats was good for third, but it showed he could take a hot start and keep it up from an average standpoint.

Moreover, Infante closed the regular season with a splash. He went 5-for-5 in the Caribes' 20-4 rout against the Tiburones de la Guaira on Dec. 18. A day later, he went 2-for-4 with a double, and the late-season surge was on. He raised his average from .335 to .350 in four days before settling back down to about the midway point over the final week.

In the first days of the postseason, Infante has been doing his part to put the Caribes ahead in round-robin play. After going 3-for-5 in his first two playoff games, he provided a run-scoring double and a run scored in the third inning of a 3-2 win Tuesday night over Pastora.

Whether all this is enough to win him consideration for Detroit's starting shortstop job won't be known until Spring Training begins. While Infante was finishing up his season, the Tigers were in talks with Seattle for fellow Venezuelan Carlos Guillen.

"The fact that Omar is playing well is something we're very excited about," Tigers manager Alan Trammell said. "This is what you're looking for from a player that didn't have the kind of year he was looking for and we were looking for. Those are the signs everybody's looking for.

"To say he's out of the picture, that's not true. Who knows what's going to happen over the next month or two, but for him this is a great step."

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You will generally find that the players who draw the most walks also accumulate high strike out totals (Bonds excepted). The deeper you go in the count, the higher the chances you'll be fooled on a pitch, and, thus, strike out.

This is true, though it's also because guys who draw a bunch of walks tend to be power hitters who swing harder than guys who dhave short swings and make contact easily. It's tough to walk when you don't swing and miss much.

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Originally posted by Owen Wilson

You will generally find that the players who draw the most walks also accumulate high strike out totals (Bonds excepted). The deeper you go in the count, the higher the chances you'll be fooled on a pitch, and, thus, strike out.

AL Leaders in BB

1-Giambi

2-Delgado

3-Thomas

3-Durazo

5-Ramirez

6-Posada

7- E. Martinez

8-ARod

9-Palmeiro

9-Olerud

AL Leaders in K

1-Giambi

2-Delgado

2-Cameron

4-Young

4-Soriano

6-Baldelli

7-Arod

8-B. Boone

9-Pena

10-Teixera.

NL top 10 in BB

1-Bonds

2-Helton

2-Thome

4-Abreu

5-Berkman

6-Giles

7-Cruz

8-Walker

8-Sexson

10-L. Gonzalez

10-C. Jones

Top-10 in NL K

1-Thome

2-Hernandez

3-Wilkerson

4-Sexson

5-Sosa

6-Burrell

7-P. Wilson

8-D. Lee

8-W. Helms

10-Edmonds

5/21 were on both lists in 2003.

5/20 were on both lists in 2002.

7/20 were on both lists in 2001.

I can say based on this good sample, that there really isn't a corralation between BB and K. (28%). The correlation is really just that there are a few players who are on both lists 2 or all three years. Delgado, Giambi, Sexson, Sosa, Thome... It's a pretty good sampling and it's pretty obvious that there isn't much of a correlation. Every two statistical catagories that don't influence one another (say BB and OBP) or are somewhat contradictory (say HR and SB) will have some correlation. For example, last year, there were 5 guys out of 20 who appeared both on the top-10 is K and in K. Any real correlation? Nope.

( I am counting each player on each lists, even if he reccurs on both lists as 1 each time. It doesn;t really make a difference except in the way that you perceive it. For example, 5/21 would become 5/16 which is a higher number (31% to 24%). However, the random correlations would also rise accordingly. (K and SB list would now have a 5/15 or 33%) If you want to see real correlation, look at BB and HR or SLG. The AL had 7 guys on both lists this year.

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When you calculate the correlation aer you only using the top 10 lists? You really need to increase your sample size (say by including all hitters with 300 or more AB's), or you at least need to include each hitter listed on both lists (ie guys who don't make the top ten in both lists need to have their K totals or BB totals included).

Just looking at the BB list, only Olerud and Palmeiro don't strike out alot. On the K list, only Young, Soriano and Baldelli (maybe Pena) don't have reasonable walk rates.

That said, the correlation among BB and K's for teams was only around .16, which isn't terribly high.

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Originally posted by qsilvr2531

When you calculate the correlation aer you only using the top 10 lists? You really need to increase your sample size (say by including all hitters with 300 or more AB's), or you at least need to include each hitter listed on both lists (ie guys who don't make the top ten in both lists need to have their K totals or BB totals included).

Just looking at the BB list, only Olerud and Palmeiro don't strike out alot. On the K list, only Young, Soriano and Baldelli (maybe Pena) don't have reasonable walk rates.

That said, the correlation among BB and K's for teams was only around .16, which isn't terribly high.

No matter which way you slice it, the correlation just isn't really there.

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I feel Infante needs to play everyday, but he'd be a nice backup guy at both SS and 2b for Guillen and Vina. He'll probably be the guy they call up if and when one of those guys go on the DL. Otherwise he'll be at Toledo playing everyday.

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Speaking of which, Toledo should reap the benefits of the Tigers off-season. They should be a fairly good team.

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He'll probably be the guy they call up if and when one of those guys go on the DL.

I really hope not. Nothing against Infante but at some point this team has to reward players who perform in the minors and not ones who just happen to play positions we have holes in.

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Originally posted by qsilvr2531

I really hope not. Nothing against Infante but at some point this team has to reward players who perform in the minors and not ones who just happen to play positions we have holes in.

Besides last year, Infante has outperformed most others in the system. Especially now in winter ball; that's got to mean something.

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Infante has outperformed most others in the system.

That's my point. Instead of comparing him to the other guys in the system, at some point we need to start forcing our prospects to perform as compared to other guys in the minors, not just in our system. Same goes for all of our young players. Infante has yet to put a full season together that indicates he is ready to hit at the major league level.

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If Infante is outperforming every other prospect in our system, but not very well compared to other minor leaguers at his position, who should we call up in an emergency?

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Sign Joe Crappy Replacement SS to do exactly what Infante would do, but without actually forcing Infante to be overmatched at the major league level.

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