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ROMAD1

POTUS Impeachment Watch

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1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

I bet Cheney does not and we all know who wore the pants in that relationship.

Rumsfeld

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2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

 

 

I agree with all three of you. (Yes, it's possible to think all of you are right).

The thing is the question of what mistakes past administrations made and how they led to the current dividing lines in the Middle East is a separate discussion from the mistakes that the current administration is making and what (if anything) they will do to fix their mistakes.

I find it ironic that Trumpers think everything Obama did was wrong and then justify Trump's actions by saying Obama did it. 

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17 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Also I would throw out that the basis for the decisions are contrasting... I've pretty much given the benefit of the doubt to all Presidents in that I think they have good intentions. In many cases a President is faced with option A is bad and decision  B is bad and the real decision is which bad outcome leads to a more favorable result, given several downstream effects that have to be weighed.

With Trump there is no consideration for anything beyond what's immediately in front of him and his own personal benefit. 

And the normal President makes the decision in consultation with others. Sometimes it's the correct one, sometimes it isn't, but at least he's not making it alone.

So much of this administration seems to be Trump making a decision unilaterally and his advisers scrambling to manage the fallout of said decision. And then crafting talking points (often incoherent) to make said decision have the appearance of at least a scintilla of logic to it.

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21 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I wonder if anyone in the Bush administration regrets the decision to go into Iraq in the first place?

Of course they do. Lets not fool ourselves.

I dunno, a lot of people made a lot of money...

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19 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I find it ironic that Trumpers think everything Obama did was wrong and then justify Trump's actions by saying Obama did it. 

It's not necessarily about love of Trump, fwiw. It's just more fun for some to ***** about and mock Dems/Never Trump Rs than it is to criticize Trump for anything.

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4 minutes ago, drownwithyou said:

I dunno, a lot of people made a lot of money...

That’s a Halliburton thing to say...

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27 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

And the normal President makes the decision in consultation with others. Sometimes it's the correct one, sometimes it isn't, but at least he's not making it alone.

So much of this administration seems to be Trump making a decision unilaterally and his advisers scrambling to manage the fallout of said decision. And then crafting talking points (often incoherent) to make said decision have the appearance of at least a scintilla of logic to it.

Yep... normal Presidents have a team of experts in each field who have spent a lifetime studying these things and he weights their input and encourages discussion and dissent among them so he can hear it all and decide.

Trump has a team of D list experts who are thrust into the job and then he listens to a guy from mar a lago or Tucker Carlson.

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28 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I find it ironic that Trumpers think everything Obama did was wrong and then justify Trump's actions by saying Obama did it. 

To note, I'm not saying either side is right or wrong.  Stan put it all on Obama (incorrectly) Pfife put it all on W (I felt there was more to the story than that).  Modern history tends to show that whatever we choose to do, it'll still have dire consequences.  

I think we can all agree that at best, Trumps plan here was horribly thought out.  

One thing that strikes me a little odd is everyone keeps saying we are bailing on our allies (the Kurds).  While true, Turkey is also an ally and trying to defend itself from the PKK.   Ultimately, right or wrong, I believe they think they are doing this in the best interest of their own country.  Turkey has an ISIS issue as well but must still think the PKK issue is more important, at least at this time.  

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1 hour ago, Oblong said:

Also I would throw out that the basis for the decisions are contrasting... I've pretty much given the benefit of the doubt to all Presidents in that I think they have good intentions. In many cases a President is faced with option A is bad and decision  B is bad and the real decision is which bad outcome leads to a more favorable result, given several downstream effects that have to be weighed.

With Trump there is no consideration for anything beyond what's immediately in front of him and his own personal benefit. 

well said Rob..

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13 minutes ago, pfife said:

Crazy....

 

If the White House is pushing individuals such as Miller and Conway who offer little substance and generally troll, I don’t blame networks for rejecting them. 

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14 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

If the White House is pushing individuals such as Miller and Conway who offer little substance and generally troll, I don’t blame networks for rejecting them. 

Not only do I not blame them, I'm wondering what the **** took so long.

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27 minutes ago, pfife said:

Not only do I not blame them, I'm wondering what the **** took so long.

For news outlets that attempt to practice real journalism, they have little choice but to give bad faith actors coverage for a long period of time to avoid further charges of bias. White House propagandists are now well defined, so it’s easy for networks to deny air time to Millers and Conways of the world...which are best suited for confirmation bias media outlets such as Fox. 

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Seeing a lot of GOP Reps wanting to overturn the 2018 election.   

Note to GOP:  You lost.  Bigly. You don't control impeachment proceedings.  GFY.  Fascists.

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Just now, pfife said:

Seeing a lot of GOP Reps wanting to overturn the 2018 election.   

Note to GOP:  You lost.  Bigly. You don't control impeachment proceedings.  GFY.  Fascists.

are you talking about drunk Matt Gaetz?  He's drunk a lot.  There are things he does when he is drunk that David Pecker knows about.

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2 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

are you talking about drunk Matt Gaetz?  He's drunk a lot.  There are things he does when he is drunk that David Pecker knows about.

Yes, and Gym Jordan, who is apparently arguing that since the testimony didn't happen in front of the whole house, it's not eligible for the impeachment inquiry.

And, even before that, any notion whatsoever that some sort of vote is required right now about the beginning of an inquiry.  Not in the constitution GOP,  GFY.  AGAIN.

This is nothing short of a coup to overturn the will of the voters in 2018.

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3 minutes ago, pfife said:

Yes, and Gym Jordan, who is apparently arguing that since the testimony didn't happen in front of the whole house, it's not eligible for the impeachment inquiry.

And, even before that, any notion whatsoever that some sort of vote is required right now about the beginning of an inquiry.  Not in the constitution GOP,  GFY.  AGAIN.

This is nothing short of a coup to overturn the will of the voters in 2018.

Gym Jordan is a big fan of transparently ignoring crimes when they occur in The Ohio State.

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talk about burying the lede

Those weapons, one senior official said, were now essentially Erdogan’s hostages. To fly them out of Incirlik would be to mark the de facto end of the Turkish-American alliance. To keep them there, though, is to perpetuate a nuclear vulnerability that should have been eliminated years ago.

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

?

 

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