Jump to content

ROMAD1

POTUS Impeachment Watch

Recommended Posts

😂 What a fantastic display of childishness, cowardice, and fear all rolled up into one brief Rose Garden appearance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a crybaby... 

I think impeachment is coming... I was skeptical for a while, but I think it's coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

What a crybaby... 

I think impeachment is coming... I was skeptical for a while, but I think it's coming.

yep, it is.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

What a crybaby... 

I think impeachment is coming... I was skeptical for a while, but I think it's coming.

Trump wants impeachment hearings at a minimum. He and his movement thrive on playing the victim card despite the fact they control most of government and they have the backing of the oligarchs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Euphdude said:

Trump wants impeachment hearings at a minimum. He and his movement thrive on playing the victim card despite the fact they control most of government and they have the backing of the oligarchs. 

Personally, I'm done giving a **** what Trump wants.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nancy Pelosi’s “I’m praying for our President “ will make a great 2020 ad for Dems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe Impeachment will help Trump at all.... the more he talks the worse it is for him.  

I also trust Pelosi's instincts.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, pfife said:

Personally, I'm done giving a **** what Trump wants.  

We still underestimate Trump and his machine - which is extremely well financed and has some of the top minds the oligarchs have to offer. They have done extensive research that likely shows impeachment hearings would increase Trump’s chances of being re-elected. He has a dedicated propaganda program spanning cable and local networks, the radio, and much of the Internet - and Dems have absolutely nothing to rival it in scale and scope. The conservative media machine will rally its troops, and the corporate media will play its typical both-sides-isms. 

Pelosi has to be very careful here.  Many of those under her don’t understand or see the big picture. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I don't believe Impeachment will help Trump at all.... the more he talks the worse it is for him.  

I also trust Pelosi's instincts.  

I totally don't buy that impeachment would help him either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Euphdude said:

We still underestimate Trump and his machine - which is extremely well financed and has some of the top minds the oligarchs have to offer. They have done extensive research that likely shows impeachment hearings would increase Trump’s chances of being re-elected. He has a dedicated propaganda program spanning cable and local networks, the radio, and much of the Internet - and Dems have absolutely nothing to rival it in scale and scope. The conservative media machine will rally its troops, and the corporate media will play its typical both-sides-isms. 

Pelosi has to be very careful here.  Many of those under her don’t understand or see the big picture. 

I think the issue is way bigger than the 2020 Election, and they do know that big picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I don't believe Impeachment will help Trump at all.... the more he talks the worse it is for him.  

I also trust Pelosi's instincts.  

Yeah - i don't think there is anything Trump is capable of doing to expand his base, and if there are still any people loosely attached to him because they haven't been paying much attention something as high profile as impeachment hearings might get some of their attention. I think that number is now pretty small though. On politial grounds I think it would better for him to be voted out - I think that is better for the health of the democracy - OTOH I also understand the importance that Congress needs to hold the executive to some standard of conduct and performance. Heck you have perfectly reasonable grounds to impeach Trump just on the basis of his refusal to even administer the Executive branch in accordance to its statutory composition let alone anything else. So institutionally, I have no opposition to impeachment, there are plenty of grounds, but politically I want the Trumpers to have their fantasy that they are this country blown up by a vote that shows them clearly what a minority they are.  As important as the former is, I think the second is more important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm under no illusions he'll be convicted.... but if you don't impeach him then who will you impeach?  That process exists for a reason and get it on record.  Put the GOP Senators on record. 

Impeach him, let the cowards acquit him, then watch him lose re-election.... then get indicted on January 22, 2021.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Oblong said:

I'm under no illusions he'll be convicted.... but if you don't impeach him then who will you impeach?  That process exists for a reason and get it on record.  Put the GOP Senators on record. 

Impeach him, let the cowards acquit him, then watch him lose re-election.... then get indicted on January 22, 2021.

 

and if he's not impeached, what's to keep any president from doing all this **** over again?  He's laying out a path for how to be an autocrat in the US.   We can either sit back and let it happen, or we can fight the mf'er.

It's really frightening how much our system depends on people following long-established norms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Constitutionally and institutionally speaking, impeachment proceedings should occur without question. Significant action needs to take place to let future administrations know Trump’s behavior is outside the bounds of our democracy and not what the Founders intended. 

The unfortunate and ironic result of modern day politics is that one side has a massive propaganda machine to convince their followers that impeachment of their party’s politician is bad, while if the other party’s politician was being impeached it would be good. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Euphdude said:

Constitutionally and institutionally speaking, impeachment proceedings should occur without question. Significant action needs to take place to let future administrations know Trump’s behavior is outside the bounds of our democracy and not what the Founders intended. 

The unfortunate and ironic result of modern day politics is that one side has a massive propaganda machine to convince their followers that impeachment of their party’s politician is bad, while if the other party’s politician was being impeached it would be good. 

Which we saw in the late 90s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I'm under no illusions he'll be convicted.... but if you don't impeach him then who will you impeach?  That process exists for a reason and get it on record.  Put the GOP Senators on record. 

Impeach him, let the cowards acquit him, then watch him lose re-election.... then get indicted on January 22, 2021.

 

the key is here. Whatever the perfect world course to take is, in practice the most important calculation to the Dems has to continue to be whether an impeachment helps or hurts their chances to retake the Senate. Or if they think the Senate trial helps Trump and/or GOP Senators, then the best course is to slow walk the House investigation/hearings to run through the campaign to where there can be no trial before the election.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I'm under no illusions he'll be convicted.... but if you don't impeach him then who will you impeach?  That process exists for a reason and get it on record.  Put the GOP Senators on record. 

Impeach him, let the cowards acquit him, then watch him lose re-election.... then get indicted on January 22, 2021.

 

The REAL Firehose Friday!

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the other thing to keep in mind about Trump is that he has learned one lesson well from the mob. He tends not to ever actually order anyone to anything that can land back at his door step. It's all suggestions, general admonitions to staff that so and so should happen. Think in particular about Kirsten Neilson. It appears he never actually ordered her to do illegal stuff, he made it plain to her he wanted her to, and he fired her when she didn't, but the guy does have a sense for how close he can come to actually putting his own azz in the sling without ever doing it. That level of ambiguity he swirls around himself makes prosecution under the black letter US law tricky even if his intent was crystal clear. Now an impeachment trial does not require proof of explicit law violation, but that is what his GOP defenders in the Senate would do their best to make it about, and that might well play well to the public for whom the difference between impeachment and criminal prosecution may be largely lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prosecutors do not go to trial if they know beyond a shadow of a doubt they won't get a conviction. Not sure what putting the GOP senators on record does. I'm sure most of their base would want them on record as not supporting conviction. I'm not even certain all the Democratic senators would be on board with conviction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Which we saw in the late 90s.

Right, and that conservative network has gotten bigger and more powerful in the 20 years since, while corporate media has made several accommodations to not appear to be liberal (which it never really was in the first place).

"Liberal media bias" has been one of the most successful manipulations conservative media and politicians have been able to pull off over the past few decades.  Now conservatives enjoy a powerful propaganda network with nothing commensurate to counter it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

the other thing to keep in mind about Trump is that he has learned one lesson well from the mob. He tends not to ever actually order anyone to anything that can land back at his door step. It's all suggestions, general admonitions to staff that so and so should happen. Think in particular about Kirsten Neilson. It appears he never actually ordered her to do illegal stuff, he made it plain to her he wanted her to, and he fired her when she didn't, but the guy does have a sense for how close he can come to actually putting his own azz in the sling without ever doing it. That level of ambiguity he swirls around himself make prosecution under the black letter US law tricky even if his intent was crystal clear. Now an impeachment trial does not require proof of explicit law violation, but that is what his GOP defenders in the Senate would do their best to make it about, and that might well play well to the public for whom the difference between impeachment and criminal prosecution may be largely lost.

Yep, Michael Cohen testified to exactly this under oath to congress.   He said Trump speaks in code, and people around him know the code.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, pfife said:

Yep, Michael Cohen testified to exactly this under oath to congress.   He said Trump speaks in code, and people around him know the code.

Because of this, maybe if the House were to decide to vote articles against him they should explicitly not be related to potential criminality but exclusively about malfeasance in office, refusal to discharge statutory requirements and dereliction of duty to uphold the Constitution. IOW, the Dems need to maintain control of the terms of debate should they decide to proceed down an impeachment path. Let the SDNY prosecute him as a civilian later for whatever his criminal transgressions may be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Prosecutors do not go to trial if they know beyond a shadow of a doubt they won't get a conviction. Not sure what putting the GOP senators on record does. I'm sure most of their base would want them on record as not supporting conviction. I'm not even certain all the Democratic senators would be on board with conviction.

This isn't a legal proceeding.  It's for the political and historical record.  To set a precedent.  Impeachment is not the same thing as a prosecution.  You have to tell future presidents that they can't get away with this.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...