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Deleterious

2013 Pistons Offseason

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All the things you are saying about Orlando are true and I'm probably guilty of underselling them. However, they simply do not make the Finals with a Marc Gasol or Tyson Chandler at C. Can we agree there?

Sure. But I don't think I said they could. I just said Dwight isn't top 5 or top 10. Although you could probably talk me into him being top 10 in his top 2-3 years.

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https://twitter.com/JeffZillgitt/status/390164228234952705

Pistons G Brandon Jennings (wisdom tooth discomfort) will miss Detroit's next two preseason games -- vs. Bulls on WED and at Cavs on THU.
Jennings has an impacted wisdom tooth and a hairline fracture of the mandible at the base of the tooth.

Normally this isn't a big deal. But a new player with new teammates and coaching staff needs time on the court.

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Sure. But I don't think I said they could. I just said Dwight isn't top 5 or top 10. Although you could probably talk me into him being top 10 in his top 2-3 years.

I think he was top 5, but my comment wasn't really a reaction to your opinion on Dwight's ranking. Some of the other hate on the guy is getting a bit too extreme though IMO.

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This is from the Orlando playoff run that year and probably my biggest complaint about Howard. He simply does not exist on offense at the end of close games. It is also why big men must shoot 60% from the FT line.

In 2009, in the playoffs, playing for the Magic, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -5 and 5 points, sorted by descending Field Goal Attempts.

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[TH=class: ranker sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]Rk[/TH]

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[TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]Season[/TH]

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[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]G[/TH]

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[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]FGA[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]FG%[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]FGX[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]3P[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]3PA[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]3P%[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]3PX[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]eFG%[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]Ast'd[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]%Ast'd[/TH]

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[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: left]Hedo Turkoglu[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2008-09[/TD]

[TD=align: left]ORL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]10[/TD]

[TD=align: right]6[/TD]

[TD=class: highlight_text, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important, align: right]19[/TD]

[TD=align: right].316[/TD]

[TD=align: right]13[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]9[/TD]

[TD=align: right].333[/TD]

[TD=align: right]6[/TD]

[TD=align: right].395[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right].167[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=align: left]Rashard Lewis[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2008-09[/TD]

[TD=align: left]ORL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]9[/TD]

[TD=align: right]6[/TD]

[TD=class: highlight_text, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important, align: right]14[/TD]

[TD=align: right].429[/TD]

[TD=align: right]8[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]6[/TD]

[TD=align: right].500[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right].536[/TD]

[TD=align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: right].833[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: left]Rafer Alston[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2008-09[/TD]

[TD=align: left]ORL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=class: highlight_text, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important, align: right]7[/TD]

[TD=align: right].286[/TD]

[TD=align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right].000[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right].286[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right].000[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]4[/TD]

[TD=align: left]Courtney Lee[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2008-09[/TD]

[TD=align: left]ORL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=class: highlight_text, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important, align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: right].000[/TD]

[TD=align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right].000[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right].000[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

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[TR]

[TD=align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: left]Dwight Howard[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2008-09[/TD]

[TD=align: left]ORL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=class: highlight_text, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important, align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right].667[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right].667[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right].500[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]6[/TD]

[TD=align: left]Mickael Pietrus[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2008-09[/TD]

[TD=align: left]ORL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=class: highlight_text, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important, align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right].000[/TD]

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[TD=align: right].000[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=align: right].000[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

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[TD=align: right]7[/TD]

[TD=align: left]Anthony Johnson[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2008-09[/TD]

[TD=align: left]ORL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=class: highlight_text, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important, align: right]1[/TD]

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[TD=align: right]8[/TD]

[TD=align: left]J.J. Redick[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2008-09[/TD]

[TD=align: left]ORL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

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[TD=align: right].000[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0

[/TD]

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[/TABLE]

He averaged 20 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 2.6 blocks, .9 steals and shot 60% from the field throughout the playoffs in the 2009 playoffs. That stat-line is a super-star’s stat line. You can dig into the last 2 minutes, but he put his team in a position to win games and was without a doubt their best player. He anchored their defense and was the most disruptive defensive force that year.

If Hedo Turkgolu is your 2nd best player, how good is your team? Within the last 15-20 years there are only a few teams that made it to the finals that can say they had a roster as shaky as Orlando’s when they made it to the finals.

Dwight’s impact has been reduced by injuries/a loss in athleticism. But the man did accomplish a LOT in Orlando without a great team. I can’t think of anyone who got better after they stopped playing with Dwight (besides a guy like Reddick who was new to the league when he played with Dwight).

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He averaged 20 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 2.6 blocks, .9 steals and shot 60% from the field throughout the playoffs in the 2009 playoffs. That stat-line is a super-star’s stat line. You can dig into the last 2 minutes, but he put his team in a position to win games and was without a doubt their best player. He anchored their defense and was the most disruptive defensive force that year.

If Hedo Turkgolu is your 2nd best player, how good is your team? Within the last 15-20 years there are only a few teams that made it to the finals that can say they had a roster as shaky as Orlando’s when they made it to the finals.

Dwight’s impact has been reduced by injuries/a loss in athleticism. But the man did accomplish a LOT in Orlando without a great team. I can’t think of anyone who got better after they stopped playing with Dwight (besides a guy like Reddick who was new to the league when he played with Dwight).

If you have Dwight Howard and still run your offense through Hedo, whats that say about Mr Top 5 player?

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If you have Dwight Howard and still run your offense through Hedo, whats that say about Mr Top 5 player?

I don’t think he is a top 5 player, I think he carried that team to the finals.

As I said before, Dwight had/had his limitations offensively. But very few centers have an offense run through them. The combination of his ability to effectively play the pick & roll, run the floor and pass out of double teams to hit guys like Lewis and Hedo made that offense good. His dominance on defense made them solid enough defensively to make the finals. Why does the best defensive player in the NBA not get as much respect as someone who is the best offensive player in the NBA?

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I don’t think he is a top 5 player, I think he carried that team to the finals.

As I said before, Dwight had/had his limitations offensively. But very few centers have an offense run through them. The combination of his ability to effectively play the pick & roll, run the floor and pass out of double teams to hit guys like Lewis and Hedo made that offense good. His dominance on defense made them solid enough defensively to make the finals. Why does the best defensive player in the NBA not get as much respect as someone who is the best offensive player in the NBA?

I don't have much problem with you saying he carried them. I just don't think you are giving the other guys enough credit. It wasn't like Lebron with the Cavs and the other 14 idiots he took to the finals.

Even if you don't think they were that good. They fit their roles in the system Van Gundy ran to perfection. Sometimes a player fitting a role is better than a more talented player that doesn't fit a role.

I love defense and going further I love big men like Howard and Drummond. If I could design a post player in the lab those two are pretty much what I would design. But I view them as complimentary pieces on a team, not the alpha dog. I just feel that a leader has to be someone I can put the ball into his hands with the game on the line. I'm not right or wrong, its just my opinion.

As for your defensive player vs offensive player question. I can game plan around a defensive player. Look at Duncan and Hibbert this year in the playoffs. Two stud big man defenders removed from the game because of the players Miami put on the court. You wont see James/Kobe/Durant taken out of a game because of the defensive players put on the court to guard them.

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Hmmm, I would probably say stronger but slightly less athletic.

I don't think he is stronger. It depends on how you define athletic. I think Drummond has quicker feet, which could allow him to have a much better offensive game.

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At the combine Howard did the agility drill in 11.21. Drummond beat him with a 10.83. Some guys from Drummond's class that he beat in this drill: Harrison Barnes, Jeremy Lamb, Bradley Beal, and Damian Lillard.

I promise I didn't read this before I made my athleticism response, but yeah. Good footwork has become so overlooked for bigmen in the NBA, and I think Drummond has a chance to be exceptional with it.

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I don't have much problem with you saying he carried them. I just don't think you are giving the other guys enough credit. It wasn't like Lebron with the Cavs and the other 14 idiots he took to the finals.

I was going to say that if you switched LeBron and Dwight with the Cavs and Magic that year that the Magic win the title going away. Dwight had some decent talent around him, LeBron had nothing.

Howard is a really good player, but he can't be the go to guy, he doesn't have the game of a post player to do so. He fits in perfect with the Rockets, Harden will help create space and Lin will be fantastic running the pick and roll in my opinion. Howard has always fancied himself as the top dog on any team, he was that in Orlando, but he gave it away, his role now is supportive, but not diminished. He just has to change his attitude.

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Just repeating some Tweets from the beat writers.

Cheeks said Billups likely wont play tonight. Bynum starts at PG tonight and probably Singler at SG. Billups expected to play tomorrow night.

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The level of petulance displayed by Howard continues to reach new heights:

Dwight Howard of Houston Rockets 'upset' that Tobias Harris of Orlando Magic wears No. 12 jersey - ESPN

The way he treated Orlando and he wants them to retire his jersey number? Howard just doesn't have a clue. I don't think I have ever disliked a sports figure more than I dislike Dwight Howard.

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If you have Dwight Howard and still run your offense through Hedo, whats that say about Mr Top 5 player?

Personally I love the idea of my best player not needing to dominate the ball. Especially as a big man who dominates the boards and on defense.

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That's cool you are boys with Drummond. Did you go to the same high school or something?

Besties from different testes as they say

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The level of petulance displayed by Howard continues to reach new heights:

Dwight Howard of Houston Rockets 'upset' that Tobias Harris of Orlando Magic wears No. 12 jersey - ESPN

The way he treated Orlando and he wants them to retire his jersey number? Howard just doesn't have a clue. I don't think I have ever disliked a sports figure more than I dislike Dwight Howard.

I laughed at that this morning. He is an absolute idiot.

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Personally I love the idea of my best player not needing to dominate the ball. Especially as a big man who dominates the boards and on defense.

Except in a close game and Rafer Alston is jacking up more shots than your "best" player.

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Except in a close game and Rafer Alston is jacking up more shots than your "best" player.

Isn't that right in line with what I said?

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Isn't that right in line with what I said?

It is exactly what you said. I was just trying to point out how insane it was.

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