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Deleterious

2013 Pistons Offseason

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One thing I worry about with Drummond is his conditioning. Last year everyone rode Frank for not giving him enough minutes (which I found to be troublesome as well). But if you noticed, Drummond was getting winded pretty quick. Will he be able to handle big time minutes all season? I sure hope so. Because if he can make a leap to anything like 15/13/2 this team will become pretty good.

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I would bet a small fortune they don't make the 2nd round, no matter how much Drummond develops. But I also think there is no way Drummond ever becomes a top 5 or even top 10 player.

I don’t see them making the second round either. But one way that happens is if we play a team like NY, where they seriously lack inside play. If we can beat them up in the paint with Smith/Monroe/Drummond, we could possibly make it. We have all seen the great advantage a group of good PF/Cs make in the playoffs (Bulls, Grizz, Pacers, etc).

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Interesting. I was not aware you felt that way. Any particular reason?

He could maybe crack the top 10. But to be top 5 I need to be able to put the ball in your hands when the game is on the line.

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Don't take that as I don't like Drummond. The kid is great and pretty much my ideal big man. Easily my favorite Piston since Grant Hill.

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Drummond can be Howard, he certainly can be a top 5/10 player in the league. Howard still doesn't have any offensive moves, Drummond can at least progress to be his equal offensively.

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Singler starting at the 2. Cheeks said he wants to get Siva about 15 minutes tonight.

This was a Tweet from Langlois. I just didn't post it.

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He could maybe crack the top 10. But to be top 5 I need to be able to put the ball in your hands when the game is on the line.

Fair enough.

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He could maybe crack the top 10. But to be top 5 I need to be able to put the ball in your hands when the game is on the line.

If you consider Dwight Howard top 5, I don't know why you wouldn't consider Drummond being top 5 some day. That is, if you ever thought Howard was top 5.

Drummond is pretty much a clone of Howard, only not as strong, but a little more athletic.

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If you consider Dwight Howard top 5, I don't know why you wouldn't consider Drummond being top 5 some day. That is, if you ever thought Howard was top 5.

Drummond is pretty much a clone of Howard, only not as strong, but a little more athletic.

I have never thought of Dwight as top 5.

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If you consider Dwight Howard top 5, I don't know why you wouldn't consider Drummond being top 5 some day. That is, if you ever thought Howard was top 5.

Drummond is pretty much a clone of Howard, only not as strong, but a little more athletic.

Hmmm, I would probably say stronger but slightly less athletic.

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Hmmm, I would probably say stronger but slightly less athletic.

You think Drummond is stronger than Howard?

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Hmmm, I would probably say stronger but slightly less athletic.

There's no way that Drummond is stronger than Howard at the same age.

I do agree on the slightly less athletic. As freakish of an athlete Drummond is, Howard is even more freakish.

The big plus with Drummond is that he has a MUCH better attitude than Howard.

If he can develop even a decent post game (something that Howard developed in his early years) then he could be a franchise guy but if he merely develops into an elite defender, mostly dunk/put back offensively type of guy then he'll be the next Tyson Chandler or one of our faves, Ben Wallace. I think that he will likely fall between the two extremes, don't know if he will ever have the offense to put up Howardesque numbers. I see him as a 15-12-2 guy which is still a darn good player.

Edited by NYLion

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https://twitter.com/Keith_Langlois/status/389793689293176833

Great debut for @Englishscope24 in Italy. Came off bench, led Montepaschi with 22 points. Hit 9/15, 4/8 from 3. He could thrive in Europe.

He is talking about Kim English.

I'm sure not making the NBA is pretty devastating to players. But playing in Europe for six figures a year is a pretty nice backup option.

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Howard as a top 5 center - sure.

Howard as a top 5 player in the league - nope.

And I'm not sure what kind of post game people think he "developed in his early years", but Howard has never developed a post game. It's the biggest knock on him as a player and the reason he can't carry a team. That's why he'll never be a top 5 player in the league. Shaq, Charles, and Kenny absolutely crucified him about that non-stop during last year's playoffs. Essentially they called him lazy for seemingly never trying to at least learn just one go to move. If he's not using his strength and athleticism to dunk the ball, he's useless on the offensive end.

I think Drummond has a chance to be a much better offensive player. All he needs is to keep working on that baby hook I've seen him toying with this season. Hopefully Sheed can instill some of that knowledge in him before his A.D.D. kicks in again.

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You think Drummond is stronger than Howard?

Not sure if he is right now, but I expect him to be bigger and stronger in the end. I don't see him winning a dunk contest either. Not that a dunk contest is near the only judge of athleticism, but I just think Dwight is a little more special in that department. No knock on my boy Drummond.

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Howard as a top 5 center - sure.

Howard as a top 5 player in the league - nope.

And I'm not sure what kind of post game people think he "developed in his early years", but Howard has never developed a post game. It's the biggest knock on him as a player and the reason he can't carry a team. That's why he'll never be a top 5 player in the league. Shaq, Charles, and Kenny absolutely crucified him about that non-stop during last year's playoffs. Essentially they called him lazy for seemingly never trying to at least learn just one go to move. If he's not using his strength and athleticism to dunk the ball, he's useless on the offensive end.

I think Drummond has a chance to be a much better offensive player. All he needs is to keep working on that baby hook I've seen him toying with this season. Hopefully Sheed can instill some of that knowledge in him before his A.D.D. kicks in again.

I'm well aware he has no post game, but I'll take him for what he is. He carried a scrub team, without its starting PG, to the Finals over Lebron. He's the best defensive player in the game and has a career average of 18 ppg on .577 shooting. If you want to leave him out of the top 5(particularly a few years ago while healthy), that's fine and all, but

I don't understand the obsession people have with knocking him for what he can't do. What he CAN do is quite special. In fact, I think the fact that he does so much without dominating the ball can often be a positive trait. Plus its not like he's competing with a bunch of other centers who have great post up games.

Top 5 C? lol

The worst part for me is that guys like Noah,Chandler and M.Gasol are often celebrated for giving you lesser versions of Dwight Howard's game. Those guys are unselfish and defensive oriented. Howard is simply offensively limited, even though those guys can't manage to average 15 ppg.

Edited by Nastradamus

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At the combine Howard did the agility drill in 11.21. Drummond beat him with a 10.83. Some guys from Drummond's class that he beat in this drill: Harrison Barnes, Jeremy Lamb, Bradley Beal, and Damian Lillard.

Howard beats him in almost every jumping category, most by just an inch. But max vert reach was 12'3" for Howard and only 11'11" for Drummond.

Drummond did beat him in no step vert. Drummond had 31.5 while Howard had a 30.5.

None of these numbers mean anything really and Howard wins a lot of them. But I'm shocked Drummond wins the agility or any of them to be honest. Howard weighed 240 at the combine while Drummond weighed 279 pounds.

The fact he is 39 pounds heavier and is still in the same neighborhood or beats Howard on these tests absolutely blows me away.

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I'm well aware he has no post game, but I'll take him for what he is...

My comment was mostly in response to NYLion talking about Howard's post game.

However, in response to your comments, I'm not trying to say Howard is a bad player, just not top 5. That simply means that if we're re-drafting the NBA and I'm picking somewhere in the top 5, he's not on my board. Maybe not the top 10 (Lebron, Paul, Durant, Rose, Parker, Wade, Westbrook, Harden, Mello, maybe Gasol). As far as talent goes, he competes with some of the guys at the end of that list, but his attitude kills it and pushes him further down in my eyes. I might even consider guys like Curry, Lillard, or Drummond over him as well on potential. I didn't even mention Kobe or Duncan who some people would still put in their top 5 even with their age. I just don't see how Howard cracks the top 5 in that list.

Del, those agility numbers are pretty awesome. They were doing the NBA TV Pistons preview the other day and the guys on there were raving about Drummond's agility, especially for his size. You look at some of the things Howard can do on the defensive side of the ball and offensively in the paint, then think about a guy who's even bigger, can jump almost as high, and is somehow more agile - wow. The potential is off the charts. I really hope he reaches it, because it's going to be fun to watch.

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