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Deleterious

2013 Pistons Offseason

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Agreed. And I also thing that Buddha is maybe forgetting just how good some of those elite big men are at stepping out and guarding on the switch in addition to locking down the paint. Ben in particular was quite good at it due to his quickness, motor, and active hands.

You're all wrong. You think the sportswriters that voted for defensive player of the year considered how much big men step out on pick and rolls? They looked at what everyone else said, looked at blocked shots, looked who won before, looked at what teams gave up less points, looked at what team's won games, and voted.

Thus, Dikembe Mutumbo. You think that guy was great at moving his feet on pick and rolls?

You think Camby and Dwight Howard got the award because they moved their feet?

You guys are substituting what YOU think a great defensive center does (and you're right) with what SPORTSWRITERS WHO VOTE FOR DPOY think a great defensive center does.

And I still maintain that a guy who can guard four (and in today's NBA, five) positions is more important than a shot blocker who can show on a pick and roll.

Lebron has been the best all around defensive player in the NBA for years, but he doesn't block shots. That's why he doesn't win it.

Mark Eaton. Yes, definitely a mobile center who got out on pick and rolls. Right?

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Why

No context.

OK he took 600 shots at the end of the clock and that is a lot compared to Curry. But how about the rest of the league? Is that a large number of shots to shoot at the end of the shot clock over 4 years? That is roughly 13% of his total shots. That might be a ton of shots, it might be average, it might be a small amount. Comparing him to just one player doesn't give us that answer.

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You're all wrong. You think the sportswriters that voted for defensive player of the year considered how much big men step out on pick and rolls? They looked at what everyone else said, looked at blocked shots, looked who won before, looked at what teams gave up less points, looked at what team's won games, and voted.

Thus, Dikembe Mutumbo. You think that guy was great at moving his feet on pick and rolls?

You think Camby and Dwight Howard got the award because they moved their feet?

You guys are substituting what YOU think a great defensive center does (and you're right) with what SPORTSWRITERS WHO VOTE FOR DPOY think a great defensive center does.

And I still maintain that a guy who can guard four (and in today's NBA, five) positions is more important than a shot blocker who can show on a pick and roll.

Lebron has been the best all around defensive player in the NBA for years, but he doesn't block shots. That's why he doesn't win it.

Mark Eaton. Yes, definitely a mobile center who got out on pick and rolls. Right?

This is nonsense. Dwight Howard doesn't win because of how he moves his feet? Um, Dwight can block a few shots, but his ability to shut down the pick and roll is as much a part of his defensive value as his rim protection and rebounding. Same with Duncan

Again, you're right about Lebron, but I can't think of another wing player off the top of my head who had a similar effect. Lebron's game to game man defense also isn't all that good fwiw. Similarly to Kobe, he's capable of being the best, but its just about impossible to have the offensive responsibilities those guys have while also playing great man D every possession, every night.

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No context.

OK he took 600 shots at the end of the clock and that is a lot compared to Curry. But how about the rest of the league? Is that a large number of shots to shoot at the end of the shot clock over 4 years? That is roughly 13% of his total shots. That might be a ton of shots, it might be average, it might be a small amount. Comparing him to just one player doesn't give us that answer.

Fwiw, I don't disagree, I just felt like being difficult and calling you out on making a definitive statement without an explanation. :)

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This is nonsense. Dwight Howard doesn't win because of how he moves his feet? Um, Dwight can block a few shots, but his ability to shut down the pick and roll is as much a part of his defensive value as his rim protection and rebounding. Same with Duncan

Did Mark Eaton and Dikembe Mutumbo win because they moved their feet?

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Did Mark Eaton and Dikembe Mutumbo win because they moved their feet?

No, do you think they won because they blocked shots only?

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No, do you think they won because they blocked shots only?

Yes. I think sportswriters are lazy and stupid and vote for DPOY based on who blocks the most shots, who is on a winning team that plays good team defense, and who has a good reputation.

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Can't some of Lebron's defensive prowess perhaps be chalked up to the fact that more often then not, they player he's guarding is also guarding him...and there isn't a harder person in the league to defend then Lebron. It requires so much more effort from these players on the defensive end that their offensive game suffers.

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Yes. I think sportswriters are lazy and stupid and vote for DPOY based on who blocks the most shots, who is on a winning team that plays good team defense, and who has a good reputation.

To be fair, if you are going to go back to the Mutombo era, pretty much the same guys that voted Mutombo DPOY 4 times voted Rodman twice, and in Worm's case it wasn't for standing in the lane blocking shots.

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Marc Stein reporting that ESPN is about to post a story that says the Pistons have interest in Jason Collins.

Good for a couple reasons. He's 7 feet tall and good PR.

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Yes. I think sportswriters are lazy and stupid and vote for DPOY based on who blocks the most shots, who is on a winning team that plays good team defense, and who has a good reputation.

Ok fine. I'm not really here to defend sports writers. However, guys like Dwight,Duncan,Robinson,Hakeem and other elite defensive bigs deserve DPOY or DPOY consideration in most years, that's what I'm really getting at.

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I take that back , I did not realize how useless he was on the court at this point.

He's pretty much still the same player he's always been. He's a big body who's good in the locker room and doesn't screw up much.

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I take that back , I did not realize how useless he was on the court at this point.

Yeah, I like bringing him in if he isn't required to play any minutes. Bring him in for leadership and to set a good example. I believe DC313 suggested that months ago and I was a big fan of it.

But the Pistons are still extremely thin at center and I can see a lot of situations where Collins will be required to play. I'm not a fan of that.

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Good for a couple reasons. He's 7 feet tall and good PR.

He's 34 years old and averaged 1.1 ppg last year. Forget it.

"Locker room leadership" is bull$#$#. Get some more guys who can 'play basketball.'

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He can defend and rebound and be a big body. I don't think it gets any better than that for a 3rd C who you sign at the tail end of free agency. I don't care if its Collins or one of the others left out there, but either way its not going to impact our win total a ton.

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Whatever PR benefits there might be from signing him, you could also be blundering into a couple potential problems:

1) He's 34 and has been a half-time player for the last five seasons. There is NO chance (none zero zip zilch nada) he is ever going to develop into a useful player for a competitive team. Each and every minute he plays is taking PT away from a younger player who might have such potential.

2) The Pistons are actually deep at the 4-5 positions. Drummond, Monroe of course are automatics. Smith also plays the 4 about half the time. Mitchell in the second round has potential. Jerebko takes some minutes at the 4. If the corpse Villanueva is still around, I suppose he will have to get some minutes too.

Because of Collins' "cultural status," there will be considerable pressure on any team that signs him -- that he ought to get playing time. Considerable playing time. Significant playing time. If he DOESN'T get playing time there will be all sorts of public and especially media rumbling that he is being 'discriminated against' in the battle for playing time.

And, if it becomes apparent he should be released --- hoo boy. Any and ALL PR points you picked up for having the 'guts' to sign him would go straight out the window. The other 29 teams which elected not to sign him wouldn't hear a peep, but all you would get on the radio would be "Homophobic Pistons cut league's first gay player."

It's a headache the Pistons don't need.

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Collins didn't get any PT the past 5 years when we thought he was straight. Nobody is going to complain this year when he doesn't get any PT.

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Ok fine. I'm not really here to defend sports writers. However, guys like Dwight,Duncan,Robinson,Hakeem and other elite defensive bigs deserve DPOY or DPOY consideration in most years, that's what I'm really getting at.

I agree with you. I just think LeBron is a better defensive player than someone who only "defends the paint."

DPOY in my opinion usually amounts to who blocks the most shots, not who is actually the best defensive player in the league.

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A lot of people thought Collins wouldn't get signed at all. If someone picks him up, I don't think they'll then get ripped for how many minutes he does or doesn't play.

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Collins didn't get any PT the past 5 years when we thought he was straight. Nobody is going to complain this year when he doesn't get any PT.

Sure they will. Now there's a "reason" why he wouldn't be getting PT.

A lot of people thought Collins wouldn't get signed at all. If someone picks him up, I don't think they'll then get ripped for how many minutes he does or doesn't play.

You just watch. If he gets signed and gets 3 DNP-CDs in a row, people on talk radio will be screaming either the coach or somebody in the front office is homophobic.

And somebody will go on "ATH" or some other sports-screech teevee show and say, "(Team) would be way better if Jason Collins was playing 20 minutes a game, but they just don't have the guts to do it."

Edited by TJ

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You just watch. If he gets signed and gets 3 DNP-CDs in a row, people on talk radio will be screaming either the coach or somebody in the front office is homophobic."

Sounds like great FM sports talk fodder...

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