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hail2mich

Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

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the sad truth of the matter is the only way we stop this thing from happening is if we suspend the 4th and 5th amendments, let the authorities confiscate the guns, and then try to start over. treating mental illness and putting up armed guards and checkpoints will only do so much.

otherwise, we should all just be prepared to bury our child one day so that we can have this right to bear arms.

someone asked why can't a person have a bomb - since it's an "arm" and the 2nd amendment says you can keep and bear "arms." the simple answer is that no right you have is absolute. not freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. everything can have reasonable restrictions.

and everyone has their own definition of reasonable.

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I would add self defense

Absolutely. That involves shooting and, possibly, killing the person you need defending from.

The purpose of a gun, recreational activities aside, is to kill. Whether just or unjust, the purpose of a gun is to kill, be it a perp, a buck, a duck, or an innocent life. The purpose of a car is to get from Point A to Point B. To equate those who get behind the wheel drunk and kill someone with those who take and use a weapon designed for the purpose of killing is a false equivalency, IMO

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For the third time, since when is drunk driving legal?

As was pointed out, what about yesterday's shooting was legal? The shooter didn't obtain the firearms legally, he didn't enter the school legally and he didn't open fire legally.

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Absolutely. That involves shooting and, possibly, killing the person you need defending from.

The purpose of a gun, recreational activities aside, is to kill. Whether just or unjust, the purpose of a gun is to kill, be it a perp, a buck, a duck, or an innocent life. The purpose of a car is to get from Point A to Point B. To equate those who get behind the wheel drunk and kill someone with those who take and use a weapon designed for the purpose of killing is a false equivalency, IMO

I'm not arguing the one arguing the equivalency with you. My only statement is that people that think making laws against something will magically make it go away are only fooling themselves into a false security. Gun Free zones are a false security since the only ones obeying those laws are....law abiding citizens. Passing more laws won't do a thing in my opinion except make people feel better because they've "done something".....but accomplished nothing.

Column: Gun-free zones provide false sense of security

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As was pointed out, what about yesterday's shooting was legal? The shooter didn't obtain the firearms legally, he didn't enter the school legally and he didn't open fire legally.

Who needs to obtain them legally when the mom just leaves them out there for him to take.

Furthermore, what is the point of a gun? And how is that equivalent to the point of a car?

One thing that could have helped here is if the documentation necessary to obtain a gun would include a profile of those who live in the house. Someone in this mental condition should not have had carte blanche access to an entire weapons locker.

Edited by mtutiger

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Who needs to obtain them legally when the mom just leaves them out there for him to take.

Do you know that? Perhaps she died trying to keep him from the guns?

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The purpose of a car is to get from Point A to Point B. To equate those who get behind the wheel drunk and kill someone with those who take and use a weapon designed for the purpose of killing is a false equivalency, IMO

It's not just drunk people who kill people with cars. More deaths occur from sober drivers than from drunk drivers.

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I'm not arguing the one arguing the equivalency with you. My only statement is that people that think making laws against something will magically make it go away are only fooling themselves into a false security. Gun Free zones are a false security since the only ones obeying those laws are....law abiding citizens. Passing more laws won't do a thing in my opinion except make people feel better because they've "done something".....but accomplished nothing.

Column: Gun-free zones provide false sense of security

which is easier to obtain, heroin or tabacoo? That a solution isn't perfect doesn't mean it is not an improvement.

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which is easier to obtain, heroin or tabacoo? That a solution isn't perfect doesn't mean it is not an improvement.

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Reading at CNN, and the call seems to be to reinstate the federal ban on assault weapons. Now I don't know diddle from squat about guns, but my understanding is that the weapons used in this (a Sig Sauer and a Glock) are commonly owned handguns, not assault weapons. A more powerful rifle called a Bushmaster was also owned by his mother and I'm not clear on whether the police seized it from the shooter's car or his mother's home, but nevertheless it wasn't in the school with him.

Maybe Hueytaxi can shed some light on the weapons themselves. The mother paid a high price for not properly securing her weapons, though. Esp. in light of the apparent diagnosis of mental illness in her son who lived in the home.

A glock is a semi-auto magazine fed handgun made in various calibers as is the sig, both are a common handguns carried by law enforcement. Bushmaster is a company not a gun. They make AR15 and m4 style rifles among others and are owned by Remington firearms company. A AR15 is typically a 20 inch barreled rifle that looks like a military m16 rifle but lacking full auto operation. A m4 is a shorter 14.5 inch version of the same gun. The civilian version has to have a 16 inch barrel and semi-auto operation only to be legal by federal law .

Man companies make versions of the AR15 rifles. Colt,Smith and Wesson,Bushmaster,Rock river arms,Dpms,Daniel defence, among a host of others.

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I don't have that answer. I have nephew that's struggling right now and has been for a year or more. My sister has worked and worked to get him help but many of the well intentioned privacy laws that have been put in place actually work against her getting help for him. He's old enough that he can shut off all information to her from doctors and does so often.

OMG, I've heard variations of this story over ... and over ... and over. It is such a tragedy.

24-72 hour psych hold, discharge with a scrip in pocket and instructions to call for outpatient mental health services. Maybe a ride to the homeless shelter, but many end up with family who are sometimes the object of their paranoia but don't have the heart to put them out.

Heartbreaking to read what this brother had to say after a local incident where a mentally ill homeless man bombed a state senator's office. It was just by the grace of God that nobody was hurt, the family had tried to get him help for years but were powerless. Why is it that we have to wait until someone is actually hurt to get these people off the streets and into a safe place where they are compelled to take their medications?

Brother: Suspect in Davis attack was once a teacher who "mentally snapped" | News | News...

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Are you for drug legalization, with the reasoning that you might as well legalize it because people will do it anyways? All drugs,btw.

Are you for legalization of murder, with the reasoning being that you might as well legalize it because a murderer is going to murder anyways?

Are you for the legalization of child porn, because child porn doesn't exploit children, people do?

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A glock is a semi-auto magazine fed handgun made in various calibers as is the sig, both are a common handguns carried by law enforcement. Bushmaster is a company not a gun. They make AR15 and m4 style rifles among others and are owned by Remington firearms company. A AR15 is typically a 20 inch barreled rifle that looks like a military m16 rifle but lacking full auto operation. A m4 is a shorter 14.5 inch version of the same gun. The civilian version has to have a 16 inch barrel and semi-auto operation only to be legal by federal law .

Man companies make versions of the AR15 rifles. Colt,Smith and Wesson,Bushmaster,Rock river arms,Dpms,Daniel defence, among a host of others.

Thanks! That is all Greek to me since I have discharged a weapon exactly once over 35 years ago; tried skeet shooting at the base rod & gun club. Do you know if the proposed assault weapons ban would affect ownership of these specific weapons?

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Are you for drug legalization, with the reasoning that you might as well legalize it because people will do it anyways? All drugs,btw.

I am in favor of legalizing most recreational drugs and decriminalizing any others. I'd prefer to tax usage, use the money to help people with problems rather than expand and empower the police state to ignore our rights against what should be in many cases illegal searches and seizures.

Are you for legalization of murder, with the reasoning being that you might as well legalize it because a murderer is going to murder anyways?

Nope. Lock them up or execute them, I have no desire to support them for 50 years in a prison.

Are you for the legalization of child porn, because child porn doesn't exploit children, people do?

Nope. Lock them up or execute them, I have no desire to support them for 50 years in a prison.

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OMG, I've heard variations of this story over ... and over ... and over. It is such a tragedy.

24-72 hour psych hold, discharge with a scrip in pocket and instructions to call for outpatient mental health services. Maybe a ride to the homeless shelter, but many end up with family who are sometimes the object of their paranoia but don't have the heart to put them out.

Exact scenario except for the homeless shelter. And no one knows what else there is to be done.

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which is easier to obtain, heroin or tabacoo? That a solution isn't perfect doesn't mean it is not an improvement.

The problem is that I've not seen any improvements suggested.

The "assault weapons" ban is a farce.

The "gun show" loophole is a straw man.

You have to pass background checks, wait periods, etc, etc now.

There are literally 1000's of laws regulating the purchase, ownership and use of guns, I've not seen one new law proposed that materially changes anything.

What else is there to do short of a complete ban and seizure of all weapons?

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The handguns prolly not. The rifles would be the first on any AW ban list.

And evidently, only the handguns were used in this shooting.

Seems unusual for a woman to purchase and own that type of rifle. Unless it was something she got in the divorce settlement out of spite.

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And evidently, only the handguns were used in this shooting.

Seems unusual for a woman to purchase and own that type of rifle. Unless it was something she got in the divorce settlement out of spite.

It does seem unusual except if the reports are accurate ( and not much so far has been) it was a .223 which would have a very light kick so easier for a smaller person to handle/shoot.

I'm still waiting to hear what the connection was to the school....

Nancy Lanza Not a Teacher? | TPM Editors Blog

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Do you know that? Perhaps she died trying to keep him from the guns?

If she died trying to keep him from the guns, that means they were too accessible for someone in that condition.

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Nothing changed after Virginia Tech, nothing will happen here. Republicans won't let it happen and the Supreme Court just ruled that every person has an individual right to own a handgun. Hard to envision anything happening.

this is different this is little kids getting gun down.... heck i use to be hardline NRA support, now after looking at my kids who are the same age as some of the victims.. i am all for gun bans and increase spending on mental health

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How can you say that, but display VT so prominently in your signature?

Because I want to honor the memory of someone means I have to ban things? Explain please.

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NBC is now reporting that he tried to purchase a rifle this week and was denied. Given that long guns are easier to obtain than handguns it seems that existing gun control laws worked so he resorted to theft. This goes to my earlier point that I'm unconvinced that any new gun control law short of a total ban would change anything.

Lanza reportedly tried to buy rifle, was denied - Video on TODAY.com

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