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ShortStop - What are the options?

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I think any Tigers deal for Upton would have to start with Castellanos, and it would only have legs if AZ thinks he can handle 3B. Peralta for Putz and sign Drew seems more plausible, but never say never I guess.

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Don't want Drew. It just feels like he's a guy that is going to spend a lot of time on the DL - like his brother. Plus, I'd stay away from Upton. Why is Arizona so desperate to trade him if he's so great? There's something wrong there.

I wish they could swing a deal for J.J. Hardy, but that is highly unlikely.

Upton doesn't excite me either - at least not enough to be talking about Castellanos + to get him.

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I think any Tigers deal for Upton would have to start with Castellanos, and it would only have legs if AZ thinks he can handle 3B. Peralta for Putz and sign Drew seems more plausible, but never say never I guess.

There's little doubt as to whether Castellanos can handle 3B. He was only moved to corner OF because of Cabrera...not because he couldn't handle 3B.

Arizona really wants a 3B for the future. Buying low on Upton might be a legitimate steal.

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The only caution I see with Upton is his home/road splits, so I guess the Tigers would need to determine if that's due to Chase Field or simply to home comforts in general.

With Castellanos at 3B, it seems to me he was still a work in progress defensively with some predictions that he'd end up in the OF even before the Cabrera move. Either way, if they're going to sell him as a 3B, now is the time because another full season removed from the position in '13 could lessen that appeal to other teams. But by the end of next season he could be off the trade table altogether anyway if he makes it up to Detroit and produces.

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Either way, if they're going to sell him as a 3B, now is the time because another full season removed from the position in '13 could lessen that appeal to other teams. But by the end of next season he could be off the trade table altogether anyway if he makes it up to Detroit and produces.

I agree...that's why I want them to trade him now. I think his value is as high as ever.

Castellanos' value as a corner OF is about as much as Upton, given a best case scenario. Except we need performance starting now. I'm not too concerned about Upton's home/road splits. The BOB is offense-friendly, but it can't skew people's numbers that much. I think sometimes hitters just focus better in front of a home crowd or when they're not jet-lagged.

Upton is still young enough that it's quite possible we haven't even seen him at his peak performance. And he's already been an All-Star twice. His contract is very manageable for the next 3 years, too. And his defense is good.

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I sort of wonder if this is a "mind of Scott Boras" creation because the word is the Red Soxs and Yankees are interested in Drew but I wonder if Boras wants teams to pony up larger offers and quickly by saying out of the side of his mouth that the Tigers are interested in Drew also....

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I sort of wonder if this is a "mind of Scott Boras" creation because the word is the Red Soxs and Yankees are interested in Drew but I wonder if Boras wants teams to pony up larger offers and quickly by saying out of the side of his mouth that the Tigers are interested in Drew also....

Definitely a Boras creation. The Yankees have little reason to be interested in Drew. Jeter may not be ready for April, but he and Cano will have the MI locked up for the rest of the season. There's really no place for Drew to play. As for the Red Sox, they have some rebuilding to do before they start throwing money at free agents. You don't just blow up a team only to sign guys the next year. If I were DD, I wouldn't fall for this headfake.

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Definitely a Boras creation. The Yankees have little reason to be interested in Drew. Jeter may not be ready for April, but he and Cano will have the MI locked up for the rest of the season. There's really no place for Drew to play. As for the Red Sox, they have some rebuilding to do before they start throwing money at free agents. You don't just blow up a team only to sign guys the next year. If I were DD, I wouldn't fall for this headfake.

I could see the Yankees wanting to move A-Rod to DH (or to the moon or the Marlins, but that's a different post...) and then having someone who could nail down 3B, but Drew is sort of an odd choice to do it with.

The Red Sox do have some money to spend and certainly could use Drew for a few years, but that's the problem, think 1 year with a option for a second and/or third year is what they are thinking. If prospect Jose Iglesias is ready in the next year or two, why do they need Drew still around eating up payroll?

I just smell a Scott Boras.....that's all......

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I was looking at some numbers and I thought it was interesting reviewing the career numbers of Delmon Young with Stephen Drew. I'm not trying to fight anyone over this, I just thought it was interesting and wanted to share with the group.

Delmon Young's 162 game career average;

[table]

[thead][tr][th]Year[/th][th]G[/th][th]PA[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]2B[/th][th]3B[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]OPS+[/th][th]GDP[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td]162 Game Avg.[/td][td]162[/td][td]658[/td][td]618[/td][td]73[/td][td]176[/td][td]34[/td][td]2[/td][td]16[/td][td]89[/td][td]6[/td][td]4[/td][td]27[/td][td]115[/td][td].284[/td][td].317[/td][td].425[/td][td].742[/td][td]98[/td][td]21[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 11/21/2012.

Stephen Drew's 162 game career average;

[table]

[thead][tr][th]Year[/th][th]G[/th][th]PA[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]2B[/th][th]3B[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]OPS+[/th][th]GDP[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td]162 Game Avg.[/td][td]162[/td][td]682[/td][td]612[/td][td]83[/td][td]162[/td][td]36[/td][td]10[/td][td]15[/td][td]70[/td][td]7[/td][td]3[/td][td]58[/td][td]121[/td][td].265[/td][td].328[/td][td].433[/td][td].762[/td][td]96[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 11/21/2012.

lol, I'll conceed that Drew should be better with the golve than Delmon Young, especially at SS.....

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Geez. People sure have a hard on for Upton. He's nice but not the kind of player you empty your system for. I would do something like Peralta, Garcia, and the rights to Gustavo Nunez.

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Geez. People sure have a hard on for Upton. He's nice but not the kind of player you empty your system for. I would do something like Peralta, Garcia, and the rights to Gustavo Nunez.

Don't forget the 1/2 pallet of sod we've got out back in Lakeland. :grin:

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Geez. People sure have a hard on for Upton. He's nice but not the kind of player you empty your system for. I would do something like Peralta, Garcia, and the rights to Gustavo Nunez.

He is the 2005 #1 draft pick, and he's been an All Star twice at age 24. He's coming off a down season, but he's the kind of player that usually isn't available at all until he's a free agent.

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He is the 2005 #1 draft pick, and he's been an All Star twice at age 24. He's coming off a down season, but he's the kind of player that usually isn't available at all until he's a free agent.

Delmon was the #1 overall pick in 2003, #2nd in ROY, and #10 in the 2010 MVP vote.

This stuff is all fine and dandy, and Upton is a nice player. But the fact remains that he's not someone you empty your farm system for. What I outlined with Peralta, Garcia and Nunez is a reasonable package in my opinion. A starting SS (or 3B if they prefer), one of our top prospects who is virtually major league ready, and a SS prospect that they like enough to already have claimed (but who is unlikely to stick on a roster all 2013 after missing all 2012 and barely any time above A+). BA ranked Nunez as the #7 Tiger prospect in 2010.

If Upton was such a monster and signed to a reasonable long term deal, then why would they even consider trading him? It's because he's a little over-rated and because there's some make-up questions. Reasons to hold firm, in my opinion.

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Don't forget the 1/2 pallet of sod we've got out back in Lakeland. :grin:

No. I like good sod. They can grow their own.

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Delmon was the #1 overall pick in 2003, #2nd in ROY, and #10 in the 2010 MVP vote.

This stuff is all fine and dandy, and Upton is a nice player. But the fact remains that he's not someone you empty your farm system for. What I outlined with Peralta, Garcia and Nunez is a reasonable package in my opinion. A starting SS (or 3B if they prefer), one of our top prospects who is virtually major league ready, and a SS prospect that they like enough to already have claimed (but who is unlikely to stick on a roster all 2013 after missing all 2012 and barely any time above A+). BA ranked Nunez as the #7 Tiger prospect in 2010.

If Upton was such a monster and signed to a reasonable long term deal, then why would they even consider trading him? It's because he's a little over-rated and because there's some make-up questions. Reasons to hold firm, in my opinion.

I agree with all of this. We can't sell the farm for Upton, he is a good player, but this shouldn't be a Cabrera type trade, where we traded our top two prospects.

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Delmon was the #1 overall pick in 2003, #2nd in ROY, and #10 in the 2010 MVP vote.

This stuff is all fine and dandy, and Upton is a nice player. But the fact remains that he's not someone you empty your farm system for. What I outlined with Peralta, Garcia and Nunez is a reasonable package in my opinion. A starting SS (or 3B if they prefer), one of our top prospects who is virtually major league ready, and a SS prospect that they like enough to already have claimed (but who is unlikely to stick on a roster all 2013 after missing all 2012 and barely any time above A+). BA ranked Nunez as the #7 Tiger prospect in 2010.

If Upton was such a monster and signed to a reasonable long term deal, then why would they even consider trading him? It's because he's a little over-rated and because there's some make-up questions. Reasons to hold firm, in my opinion.

Good overview of Upton, and completely reasonable. I'm in agreement with all this.

As for Stephen Drew, I too am not sold on our committing years to him, despite Lee's stamp of approval. He's been hurt for much of the last two seasons, and it's a big assumption that he is over his injury and ready to give us 150 games of 3+ WAR ball each year through 2015. Because if he's not--if we relive his 2012 Groundhog Day for the next three years--the wailing and gnashing of teeth around here will be epic, possibly Delmon level.

I am resigned to his being signed, though, so all I can do is cross my fingers and hope for the best.

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I agree with all of this. We can't sell the farm for Upton, he is a good player, but this shouldn't be a Cabrera type trade, where we traded our top two prospects.

Our top two prospects now aren't nearly as well-regarded as Maybin and Miller.

The fact that both later flopped is immaterial to their trade value at the time they had been traded.

I'd rather trade only one of the two to get Upton. Or both to get Upton and Bauer. I prefer Castellanos. While he might turn out to be a decent corner OF, Garcia is already a plus OF, and one year younger. Both have similar offensive ceilings, IMO.

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Delmon was the #1 overall pick in 2003, #2nd in ROY, and #10 in the 2010 MVP vote.

This stuff is all fine and dandy, and Upton is a nice player. But the fact remains that he's not someone you empty your farm system for. What I outlined with Peralta, Garcia and Nunez is a reasonable package in my opinion.

I'm fine with your package, but I don't think that would get it done. Upton has already proven he's orders of magnitude better than Young, both on defense and offense. I think he is going to require Castellanos at the very least.

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As for Stephen Drew, I too am not sold on our committing years to him, despite Lee's stamp of approval.

I'm not really that approving. My pessimism for Peralta exceeds my optimism for Drew.

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I was looking at some numbers and I thought it was interesting reviewing the career numbers of Delmon Young with Stephen Drew. I'm not trying to fight anyone over this, I just thought it was interesting and wanted to share with the group.

Delmon Young's 162 game career average;

[table]

[thead][tr][th]Year[/th][th]G[/th][th]PA[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]2B[/th][th]3B[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]OPS+[/th][th]GDP[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td]162 Game Avg.[/td][td]162[/td][td]658[/td][td]618[/td][td]73[/td][td]176[/td][td]34[/td][td]2[/td][td]16[/td][td]89[/td][td]6[/td][td]4[/td][td]27[/td][td]115[/td][td].284[/td][td].317[/td][td].425[/td][td].742[/td][td]98[/td][td]21[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Stephen Drew's 162 game career average;

[table]

[thead][tr][th]Year[/th][th]G[/th][th]PA[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]2B[/th][th]3B[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]OPS+[/th][th]GDP[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td]162 Game Avg.[/td][td]162[/td][td]682[/td][td]612[/td][td]83[/td][td]162[/td][td]36[/td][td]10[/td][td]15[/td][td]70[/td][td]7[/td][td]3[/td][td]58[/td][td]121[/td][td].265[/td][td].328[/td][td].433[/td][td].762[/td][td]96[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]

[/table]

lol, I'll conceed that Drew should be better with the golve than Delmon Young, especially at SS.....

Similarities there, sure... but first, as others have mentioned, we're talking about SS, not OF. More willing to give up offense for defense at that position. Second, looking at the numbers even as they are there Drew as double the walks as Young. Despite a lower AVG, his OBP is still higher. Part of the problem with Young was that he swung at way too much. He only walked once for every 24 times he came to the plate for heavens sake! Look too at his GDP. Now, part of that might be explained by having more people on base in front of him than Drew... but a large part is his slow motion running speed.

Look, Young isn't as terrible as some people make him out to be I feel. I actually was in favor of keeping him and looked for him to have a break out year after a solid September with the Tigers last year. And a .284 AVG is nothing to complain about. BUT, that's not enough just by itself. And Delmon is quite sub-par in many other areas... His defense is suspect. His running speed is terrible. His plate discipline is awful. I can accept a player who is bad in one or even two areas if they excel enough in other areas for make up for it. Delmon is just average, or perhaps slightly above average, when hitting. And every other area of his game is sub-average.

Now what about Drew? He's got even more strike outs than Delmon (though slightly more PA too). His walks are a lot more, but that's not saying much. Just about EVERYONE will have more walks that Young. I dunno enough about his defense or base speed to know if those make up for being a free swinging, but the mere fact that he's a SS who actually plays defensively rather than a corner OF who's pushed to DH whenever possible his a huge check plus for Drew.

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I was looking at some numbers and I thought it was interesting reviewing the career numbers of Delmon Young with Stephen Drew. I'm not trying to fight anyone over this, I just thought it was interesting and wanted to share with the group.

Delmon Young's 162 game career average;

Stephen Drew's 162 game career average;

lol, I'll conceed that Drew should be better with the golve than Delmon Young, especially at SS.....

what these numbers show me is that Drew walks more, Ks the same, has more power (how pathetic is that), is an overall better offensive (by wOBA or OPS) and defensive player than Delmon, at a more important defensive position.

the only concerns are the ankle and attitude.

a simple way to look at a GM's job is this: improve a team by upgrading a position when possible (like 2b with Infante and RF with Hunter). Drew is a upgrade. Not a huge upgrade, but a clear upgrade.

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I'm sort of on the fence with Drew as a potential Tiger. On one hand SS is sort of a premium position right now and not a lot of teams have great shotstops so being able to find a decent one and locking them up for 3-7 years might be a good thing. If Drew can heal up and do his career average with a good golve perhaps it will be just fine.

On the other hand, my real concern is what other teams have been doing to Drew. Some of it can be related to teams being "small market" but to what degree I don't know. First, Arizona traded Drew last year to Oakland. Arizona (who's still looking for infield help right now...) had presumably seen enough of Drew and sent him packing, and Arizona's haul? Oakland's 17th round draft pick Sean Jamieson (with a 2 year -A and A line of .241 Avg. .353 OBP .363 SLG .715 OPS). Not quite a king's ransom.

So then Drew was in Oakland and they got a good look at Drew too. Oakland liked Drew, but decided against Drew's $10M option and paid him a $1M buyout. My understanding is that Oakland would like to have Drew back, just not at $10M figure. Now Jon Heyman reports that the Yankees and Red Sox are interested in Drew too, but what they were interested in him for was very curious also.

The Yankees were asking if Drew would take a "super sub" roll and help out around the infield. A curious request considering Drew has only played 792 games at SS and only one game as a DH in his 7 year career and not a single inning at a different position. The Red Sox too would like Drew, but only until shortstop prospect Jose Iglesias is ready (could be later this year, could be never...) but again, another team doesn't see Drew a longer term, shortstop of the future type player either. I just see a lot of red flags with Drew and I'm just not sold that Drew is the answer to the Tigers shortstop problems for the next few years, I guess we'll see what happens.

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