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ShortStop - What are the options?

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I sort of feel Peralta would be a "don't know what you got 'til it's gone" situation.

Well said. He's not elite, but he's in the 10-15 range of the SS group. Improving would be tough, as most guys ahead of him aren't too available.

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I sort of feel Peralta would be a "don't know what you got 'til it's gone" situation.

I'd be willing to take that chance for improved defense. The lost offense should already be replaced with Martinez taking over at DH.

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I'd be willing to take that chance for improved defense. The lost offense should already be replaced with Martinez taking over at DH.

I was going to say yes, but the lineup would be less deep, but then I remembered that Delmon Young was the DH, and even a banjo hitting shortstop could provide that level of offense, albeit in a different way, ie higher obp, lower slg, and better baserunning.

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I was going to say yes, but the lineup would be less deep, but then I remembered that Delmon Young was the DH, and even a banjo hitting shortstop could provide that level of offense, albeit in a different way, ie higher obp, lower slg, and better baserunning.

Dombrowski should be able to improve line-up depth by adding a decent corner OF. Maybe Illitch will buy him one.

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I'd be willing to take that chance for improved defense. The lost offense should already be replaced with Martinez taking over at DH.

We need that upgrade without losing Peralta though. Not to mention that the complaints about Peralta's D are extremely overstated. There is no way you offset the drop in offense with an upgrade on defense without getting an Andrus caliber SS.

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We need that upgrade without losing Peralta though. Not to mention that the complaints about Peralta's D are extremely overstated. There is no way you offset the drop in offense with an upgrade on defense without getting an Andrus caliber SS.

They should also be able to find an offensive upgrade for corner outfield as well. If DD can't find somebody better than Boesch/Berry, I don't know what to say. Peralta looked like he dropped off defensively last year and I think he'll drop further next year. I understand there aren't a lot of options at shortstop and realistically he'll be back. However, if they do find a defensive shortstop to replace him, I am not going to miss Peralta.

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Tigers apparently believe Eugino Suarez will be the starting shortstop in 2014. I have heard multiple reports that they think he will be ready by then and why Peralta's option was picked up!

As much as I want to stand up for my AAT, I simply don't believe this. Suarez has been a pleasant surprise so far, but in no way do I think he will be ready in 2014. I still think he's a long-shot to even make the majors at all. But he does have some promise.

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They should also be able to find an offensive upgrade for corner outfield as well. If DD can't find somebody better than Boesch/Berry, I don't know what to say. Peralta looked like he dropped off defensively last year and I think he'll drop further next year. I understand there aren't a lot of options at shortstop and realistically he'll be back. However, if they do find a defensive shortstop to replace him, I am not going to miss Peralta.

Like I said, I think the concerns about Peralta's D are overstated. I think he's been quite good the last few years. He really showed off his glove in the playoffs too. I mean, it all depends who the defensive SS is in the end. How many guys are upgrades that we an acquire and also belong in a starting lineup for a contender? Is Brendan Ryan good enough? He of the sub 600 OPS, but the best SS glove in baseball?

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I know the guy had a terrible season last year based off of his career numbers. I also know he has a big mouth and popped off making a slur towards homosexuals this past season. However, I still believe that Yunel Escobar is worth taking a peak at if your Dombrowski.

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Peralta was nonexistent on the offensive side and slow afoot ALL year.

No range at all. He came up time after time after time on the offense and zero to show for it in fact I would call him a rallykiller.

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Like I said, I think the concerns about Peralta's D are overstated. I think he's been quite good the last few years. He really showed off his glove in the playoffs too. I mean, it all depends who the defensive SS is in the end. How many guys are upgrades that we an acquire and also belong in a starting lineup for a contender? Is Brendan Ryan good enough? He of the sub 600 OPS, but the best SS glove in baseball?

Peralta is steady, but I think his range is very bad and he was soft tossing so much last year, I thought he was injured. I don't think he was horrible, but I think he was a bit below average overall for the season. I would take Hardy or Yunel Escobar over Peralta. Both could be available but I don't know at what price. Ryan might be too weak of a hitter, although I don't think you can just add and subtract runs with defense the same way you can with offense. I believe an elite defender can affect a pitching staff in ways that go beyond plays made. What I mean by that is that pitchers and defense work together, so a strong defense can possibly change the way a pitcher pitches. At the very least, it will help lower his pitch count. It's just a theory I have. I probably value defense more than most do here.

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There really isn't a quick fix for Peralta, it's just that simple and the Tigers are not going to go get somone who is as good or marginally better than Peralta for 2013.

Let's look at some options;

Speaking of "rally killing", here is Brendan Ryan's numbers, see anything you like there?

[table]

[thead][tr][th]Year[/th][th]Age[/th][th]Tm[/th][th]Lg[/th][th]G[/th][th]PA[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]OPS+[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td]2012[/td][td]30[/td][td]SEA[/td][td]AL[/td][td]141[/td][td]470[/td][td]42[/td][td]79[/td][td]3[/td][td]31[/td][td]11[/td][td]5[/td][td]44[/td][td]98[/td][td].194[/td][td].277[/td][td].278[/td][td].555[/td][td]61[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]162 Game Avg.[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]162[/td][td]548[/td][td]62[/td][td]119[/td][td]4[/td][td]39[/td][td]15[/td][td]5[/td][td]40[/td][td]84[/td][td].244[/td][td].306[/td][td].327[/td][td].633[/td][td]75[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 11/11/2012.

If you need something to compare Ryan with offensively, here'a Brandon Inge's numbers.

[table]

[thead][tr][th]Year[/th][th]Age[/th][th]Tm[/th][th]Lg[/th][th]G[/th][th]PA[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]OPS+[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td]2012[/td][td]35[/td][td]TOT[/td][td]AL[/td][td]83[/td][td]331[/td][td]33[/td][td]66[/td][td]12[/td][td]54[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]24[/td][td]91[/td][td].218[/td][td].275[/td][td].383[/td][td].658[/td][td]81[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]162 Game Avg.[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]162[/td][td]602[/td][td]61[/td][td]125[/td][td]17[/td][td]70[/td][td]5[/td][td]4[/td][td]48[/td][td]139[/td][td].234[/td][td].303[/td][td].387[/td][td].690[/td][td]83[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 11/11/2012.

How about Yunel Escobar?

Frankly, I'd take the "great" year of Peralta OR Escobar assuming the other was going to have a "bad" year...

I've reprinted his numbers for his full seasons because he sort of defines what Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde means. Do you like the Escobar who finished 6th in ROY voting for 2007 and finished with a OPS of .837 or the 2012 version of Escobar that finished with a .655 OPS? Peralta averages 18 HR's and 82 RBI's to Escobar's 11 Hr's and 62 RBI's. And also if your curious, Peralta ground into 18 double plays for 2012 (531 AB's) and Escobar ground into 21 double plays in 558 AB's, which I'm sure it's because Escobar hit behind runners slower than Cabrera, Fielder, Young and Avila.

[table]

[thead][tr][th]Year[/th][th]Tm[/th][th]Lg[/th][th]G[/th][th]PA[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]OPS+[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td]2007[/td][td]ATL[/td][td]NL[/td][td]94[/td][td]355[/td][td]54[/td][td]104[/td][td]5[/td][td]28[/td][td]5[/td][td]3[/td][td]27[/td][td]44[/td][td].326[/td][td].385[/td][td].451[/td][td].837[/td][td]118[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2008[/td][td]ATL[/td][td]NL[/td][td]136[/td][td]587[/td][td]71[/td][td]148[/td][td]10[/td][td]60[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][td]59[/td][td]62[/td][td].288[/td][td].366[/td][td].401[/td][td].766[/td][td]103[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2009[/td][td]ATL[/td][td]NL[/td][td]141[/td][td]604[/td][td]89[/td][td]158[/td][td]14[/td][td]76[/td][td]5[/td][td]4[/td][td]57[/td][td]62[/td][td].299[/td][td].377[/td][td].436[/td][td].812[/td][td]115[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2010[/td][td]TOT[/td][td]MLB[/td][td]135[/td][td]567[/td][td]60[/td][td]127[/td][td]4[/td][td]35[/td][td]6[/td][td]2[/td][td]56[/td][td]57[/td][td].256[/td][td].337[/td][td].318[/td][td].655[/td][td]80[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2011[/td][td]TOR[/td][td]AL[/td][td]133[/td][td]590[/td][td]77[/td][td]149[/td][td]11[/td][td]48[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]61[/td][td]70[/td][td].290[/td][td].369[/td][td].413[/td][td].782[/td][td]112[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2012[/td][td]TOR[/td][td]AL[/td][td]145[/td][td]608[/td][td]58[/td][td]141[/td][td]9[/td][td]51[/td][td]5[/td][td]1[/td][td]35[/td][td]70[/td][td].253[/td][td].300[/td][td].344[/td][td].644[/td][td]75[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]162 Game Avg.[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]162[/td][td]684[/td][td]85[/td][td]171[/td][td]11[/td][td]62[/td][td]5[/td][td]4[/td][td]61[/td][td]75[/td][td].282[/td][td].353[/td][td].390[/td][td].743[/td][td]99[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 11/11/2012.

Jhonny Peralta career numbers, see what you think....

[table]

[thead][tr][th]Year[/th][th]Age[/th][th]Tm[/th][th]Lg[/th][th]G[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td]2003[/td][td]21[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]AL[/td][td]77[/td][td]242[/td][td]24[/td][td]55[/td][td]4[/td][td]21[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]20[/td][td]65[/td][td].227[/td][td].295[/td][td].326[/td][td].621[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2004[/td][td]22[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]AL[/td][td]8[/td][td]25[/td][td]2[/td][td]6[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]6[/td][td].240[/td][td].321[/td][td].280[/td][td].601[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2005[/td][td]23[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]AL[/td][td]141[/td][td]504[/td][td]82[/td][td]147[/td][td]24[/td][td]78[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]58[/td][td]128[/td][td].292[/td][td].366[/td][td].520[/td][td].885[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2006[/td][td]24[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]AL[/td][td]149[/td][td]569[/td][td]84[/td][td]146[/td][td]13[/td][td]68[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]56[/td][td]152[/td][td].257[/td][td].323[/td][td].385[/td][td].708[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2007[/td][td]25[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]AL[/td][td]152[/td][td]574[/td][td]87[/td][td]155[/td][td]21[/td][td]72[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]61[/td][td]146[/td][td].270[/td][td].341[/td][td].430[/td][td].771[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2008[/td][td]26[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]AL[/td][td]154[/td][td]605[/td][td]104[/td][td]167[/td][td]23[/td][td]89[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]48[/td][td]126[/td][td].276[/td][td].331[/td][td].473[/td][td].804[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2009[/td][td]27[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]AL[/td][td]151[/td][td]582[/td][td]57[/td][td]148[/td][td]11[/td][td]83[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]51[/td][td]134[/td][td].254[/td][td].316[/td][td].375[/td][td].690[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2010[/td][td]28[/td][td]TOT[/td][td]AL[/td][td]148[/td][td]551[/td][td]60[/td][td]137[/td][td]15[/td][td]81[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]53[/td][td]103[/td][td].249[/td][td].311[/td][td].392[/td][td].703[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2011[/td][td]29[/td][td]DET[/td][td]AL[/td][td]146[/td][td]525[/td][td]68[/td][td]157[/td][td]21[/td][td]86[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]40[/td][td]95[/td][td].299[/td][td].345[/td][td].478[/td][td].824[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]2012[/td][td]30[/td][td]DET[/td][td]AL[/td][td]150[/td][td]531[/td][td]58[/td][td]127[/td][td]13[/td][td]63[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]49[/td][td]105[/td][td].239[/td][td].305[/td][td].384[/td][td].689[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]162 Game Avg.[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]162[/td][td]598[/td][td]79[/td][td]158[/td][td]18[/td][td]82[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]56[/td][td]135[/td][td].264[/td][td].327[/td][td].422[/td][td].750[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 11/11/2012.

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Peralta was nonexistent on the offensive side and slow afoot ALL year.

No range at all. He came up time after time after time on the offense and zero to show for it in fact I would call him a rallykiller.

This is how I think of him, but I guess ive accepted that the Tigers will not address the position for right now.

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When you compare Escobar to Peralta defensively though doesn't that elevate him quite a bit?

When you compare Brendan Ryan to Escobar defensively though doesn't that elevate Ryan quite a bit too?

:ermm:

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Some more food for thought;

Peralta had a down year with the bat for 2012, no question. Peralta had "only" 63 RBI's for 2012 which is down from 86 RBI's for 2011.

In terms of team RBI's Peralta was 5th THIS YEAR in Tigers RBI's, ahead of him was:

Cabrera (139)

Fielder (108)

Young (74)

Jackson (66)

Peralta (63)

Here's another thing to think of. The Seattle Mariners were pretty bad at scoring runs in 2012. If Peralta and his 63 RBI's were on the Mariners team for 2012, Peralta would have been second best in RBI's for the ENTIRE Mariners team with only Kyle Seager with 86 RBI's ahead of Peralta.

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Are there any stats on how addition of Infante helped the Tigers' defensively? I'd want to know those before making any moves. Peralta is signed, so you don't have to give away the farm. There's no way I'm including Castellanos in a deal.

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Basically Boesch and four other guys with half as many PA were worse than he on the Tigers. Boesch had 500 PA for the Tigers this year. Yikes!

In any event, my point really was that using RBI in such a manner is a really poor argument rather than Jhonny being good or bad. There are any number of better ways to evaluate a player's offensive contributions than the way presented.

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Trading Peralta would be a very dumb move on the tigers part, his value right now is at it's lowest since they traded for him initially. And when you add in the luck factor to his 2012 season, you can see where Jhonny realy fell off, he's only had 2 seasons in his career with a BABIP under .300 2010 and 2012 (.275 this year) his career BABIP is .310 which this season would have meant 15 more hits and a .267 batting average and a .700+ OPS. All numbers that with his defensive ability would have been more than acceptable. His BABIP with RISP was .255 and if he gets his career number it's an extra 6 hits and 9 rbi. If Jhonny had a .267-14-72 line with his D, nobody would be talking about trading him. Which shortstop that we trade for is going to even have that line as a best case scenario? None. But there's a chance Jhonny hits .250-20-70 and we'll take that all the way to the playoffs again

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The Rangers don't want to trade either Andrus or Profar to get Justin Upton. They tried to get Simmons from Atlanta and spin him to Arizona in a package for Upton. It seems to me that the Tigers don't have any reasonable package to interest the Rangers and aquire Andrus.

Edited by RatkoVarda

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I'm going to keep beating this drum. Only Scherzer gets us Andrus.

Rangers need to move him. And I think you're highly overrating Andrus.

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