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The Marijuana Issue.

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3 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I think it is possible to consume an edible without intending to get high / just to take the edge off.

Yeah, honestly I don’t know. I would argue that if the edge is off, you are sufficiently impaired. 

I agree it isn’t a great distinction. I don’t personally feel like any edge is off after having a beer when I get home. 

I don’t think “intent” is right way to define it  I think it’s simply more a matter of the result. There are valid taste based reasons to consume a small amount of alcohol and not become impaired.

is there a similar thing for marijuana? Does marijuana taste good? Can you take one hit to get the taste satisfaction and be content with that amount while not becoming impaired?

I don’t know how to answer that but maybe someone with experience could clarify  

 

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On 10/29/2018 at 1:47 PM, Oblong said:

Well I never really said things would descend into chaos but whatever.... attack that straw man with full gusto if it makes you feel better about yourself. 

My bad I didn’t realize you were the only person allowed to sensationalize.  I must have had my fix when I made that post.

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2 hours ago, Shelton said:

Yeah, honestly I don’t know. I would argue that if the edge is off, you are sufficiently impaired. 

I agree it isn’t a great distinction. I don’t personally feel like any edge is off after having a beer when I get home. 

I don’t think “intent” is right way to define it  I think it’s simply more a matter of the result. There are valid taste based reasons to consume a small amount of alcohol and not become impaired.

is there a similar thing for marijuana? Does marijuana taste good? Can you take one hit to get the taste satisfaction and be content with that amount while not becoming impaired?

I don’t know how to answer that but maybe someone with experience could clarify  

 

Not sure if all of this is completely analogous to having a beer for taste.  Although tasty beers will probably give you a buzz after a couple if they are worth anything ? 

As far as traditional flower I'm not sure if it is being bred/planted to be a pure taste thing so you don't really get high.  I would imagine a seasoned smoker wouldn't get high off a hit or two, but that's not something I really dabble in.  But with all the money being pumped into it I wouldn't be shocked if it is a thing though.

They do make a ton of edibles, drinks, drops, creams, vapors, etc. that are designed specifically not to get you high.  I buy my mom drops and creams to help deal with her arthritis.  My dad takes edibles to deal with shoulder/back pain from an injury a couple months back.  I take a spray at night that included melatonin that helps battle insomnia.  My mother in law tried it and now uses it to help her sleep.  I haven't tried any of the specific anxiety related edibles/drops for humans, but we give our dog the pet cbdb drops during fireworks seasons, otherwise she hides in terror under anything she can find and shakes the entire night.  None of my family members were smokers or anything like that pre-legalization either.

And for what it is worth, I don't eat many edibles but I do really like the taste when marijuana is involved.  My roommate when I was studying/working in the Hague made some homemade banana bread with some cannabis butter he made himself and it tasted heavenly.  I tried a lemonade infused drink after it got legalized here and it was pretty tasty as well, so I imagine there are people who may eat it for the taste alone.

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6 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I don't think it can be argued much that people can drink alcohol without intending to get drunk, and doesn't seem like much of a distinction an any event.

Well, he's Canadian, so the idea was news to him. 

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We have a friend who confided that he is using it (illegally in my state) to relieve painful nighttime muscle spasms following a brain injury.  He says that it hasn’t done anything for his daytime movement impairment due to spasticity but that a little at bedtime does suppress the spasms enough to allow him to sleep at night.  

It was interesting info. He also had to explain to us what, “wax,” is. Lol   

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41 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Beer is so nasty and all tastes the same. I can't believe people drink it for taste and can distinguish one beer from the next. 

I'm not a huge beer fan, but to be fair, they certainly don't all taste same - I think you could make a fair argument that the range of flavors in beer is as wide or wider than that of wines.  

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3 hours ago, Shelton said:

Yeah, honestly I don’t know. I would argue that if the edge is off, you are sufficiently impaired. 

I agree it isn’t a great distinction. I don’t personally feel like any edge is off after having a beer when I get home. 

I don’t think “intent” is right way to define it  I think it’s simply more a matter of the result. There are valid taste based reasons to consume a small amount of alcohol and not become impaired.

is there a similar thing for marijuana? Does marijuana taste good? Can you take one hit to get the taste satisfaction and be content with that amount while not becoming impaired?

I don’t know how to answer that but maybe someone with experience could clarify  

 

My $.02 is that people are tryna get high if it's not medicinal.   There are varieties of weed that purport to impact one differently, but it's different high. Different strains taste different, bit better taste is largely a way to say it's more potent

They've started adding flavoring to the oils like with Vapes but I don't think people are switching to thc vapes because of those flavorings.

If they actually inhale correctly, most non regular pot smokers will get toasted from one hit.

Just my opinion

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5 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I'm not a huge beer fan, but to be fair, they certainly don't all taste same - I think you could make a fair argument that the range of flavors in beer is as wide or wider than that of wines.  

To me it all tastes the same, and it tastes very nasty. I can't choke down enough beer to get drunk. Since I find it so nasty, I tend to stick to cheap beers on the rare times I do drink. Maybe I should try some of these craft beers. 

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6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

To me it all tastes the same, and it tastes very nasty. I can't choke down enough beer to get drunk. Since I find it so nasty, I tend to stick to cheap beers on the rare times I do drink. Maybe I should try some of these craft beers. 

LOL - It's IPA's and the I like the least. And whoever came up with the idea of making bear out of wheat should be toasted in his own oast!

xD

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22 minutes ago, pfife said:

My $.02 is that people are tryna get high if it's not medicinal.   There are varieties of weed that purport to impact one differently, but it's different high. Different strains taste different, bit better taste is largely a way to say it's more potent

They've started adding flavoring to the oils like with Vapes but I don't think people are switching to thc vapes because of those flavorings.

If they actually inhale correctly, most non regular pot smokers will get toasted from one hit.

Just my opinion

I get toasted from one hit.  Buddies are jealous.

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26 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

LOL - It's IPA's and the I like the least. And whoever came up with the idea of making bear out of wheat should be toasted in his own oast!

xD

So many good different styles of beer. Some wheat beers are ok. 

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Regardless, if your purpose is to get drunk, beer is not the most efficient method. 

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13 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I get toasted from one hit.  Buddies are jealous.

That wax stuff is supposedly very concentrated,but our friend says he only uses a very small amount. Didn’t ask if he got high from it. Didn’t care, really.  I can say that the prescription muscle relaxers my husband was given back when he was having night spasms made him really loopy, and it persisted well into the next day.  

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Cornhole is a pot growing haven.  Every year the pot cops (around harvest) use choppers to spot the plants, then send in ground troops to eradicate those dastardly buds of evil.  Pictures on the front page of the local rag included.  Doesn't make a dent. People like to smoke pot, so they do.  They will get it one way or another - from the Cornhole Cannameisters - or a supply chain from who knows where.

One of my best friends died a little over a year ago after battling cancer for 4 years.  At the end he got the most relief from pot than anything else they gave him.  Well, not "they" I guess.  Somehow, he died smiling.

Ironically, Ohio is a medical pot state, although one would ever know it. I looked it up; 370 applications for a dispensary licenses in our state. Not a single one from Cornhole county.  Ok. ?

I find the entire pot conversation fascinating.

I was flipping channels on the radio this morning and heard an interview about a pot smoking survey.  They did a bunch of tests with pot smokers (makes perfect sense).  All I wanted to know is how to get that job.  The ultimate test dummy.  It was a SSS (small sample size for the stat guys) though. I can't believe they can't get more volunteers.

We have people yapping on the Tee Vee, radio, papers, you name it, about pot.  Pot. P fricken OT.  Experts, all of'em.

When they interview Cheech & Chong, I'll tune in.

?

 

 

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On 11/1/2018 at 11:55 AM, six-hopper said:

I'm guessing that will be one of very few things -- maybe the only one -- on which we will both be voting the same way.

As I've said before, as a conservative of libertarian bent, I'm in favor of legalizing all of the currently illegal drugs.  With the exception of my family and friends, I don't care if other people get high, or for that matter if they overdose and die.  I don't believe that there is anyone who does not know the dangers of addiction and overdose and the other adverse health effects of heroin and fentanyl and oxy and meth and crack and any other "hard" drugs, so if  people choose to use them anyway, I have no interest in protecting them from themselves.

As I've also said before here, the so-called War on Drugs was lost long ago, and I think that the main reason it's still being fought is the government jobs that it supports.  As long as there is demand for drugs, someone will supply them.  And making them illegal has made them far more expensive than they need to be, created a huge criminal industry to produce and distribute them, and  led to a lot of corollary crime, much of it violent.  Plus the "War" eats up enormous resources in manpower and money, but no matter how much money we spend on policing and court services and and prisons to catch and punish people for drug crimes, there is still an endless supply of both the drugs and people to provide them.  Give me a lengthy shopping list of illegal drugs, and I am confident that I could fill it pretty quickly, even though I am not a regular player in the market. 

I think that the War on Drugs is in many ways more of a scourge than the drugs themselves, plus it costs me and all other taxpayers money that could be spent on something useful, like fixing roads and building a wall at the border.

The problem with making all drugs legal is the innocent people getting killed by someone stoned out of their minds.

Addiction is a very complicated issue. Yes, people know opiates are addictive and very bad for you. But many people aren't aware of the fact that they have an "addictive" personality. Whether it's food, sex, drugs or even video games. It's actually a repressed gene that rears its ugly head when drugs are introduced. That's why you hear the stories about the heroin addict who became an addict after being on pain pills from a car accident or surgery.  That is why people say it's a disease, it's actually a mental illness.

Experts want to tell you cannabis is a gateway drug. They say it makes you crave a bigger and better high. I have no idea if that is true or not but I will say as long as it's being sold on the black market, people very well may experiment with harder drugs. Because many of the cannabis dealers also sell the harder drugs. 

Someone said something like "You can't legislate morality". And this is so true. If something is illegal, there's going to be a demand for it. Whether it's gambling, alcohol or drugs. Heck, even prostitution. 

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14 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

The problem with making all drugs legal is the innocent people getting killed by someone stoned out of their minds.

Addiction is a very complicated issue. Yes, people know opiates are addictive and very bad for you. But many people aren't aware of the fact that they have an "addictive" personality. Whether it's food, sex, drugs or even video games. It's actually a repressed gene that rears its ugly head when drugs are introduced. That's why you hear the stories about the heroin addict who became an addict after being on pain pills from a car accident or surgery.  That is why people say it's a disease, it's actually a mental illness.

 

They might kill you or they might steal from you to feed their addiction.  There are lots of problems with legalization of drugs and getting more people to use them freely.  And yes, it is definitely an illness over which many people have little control and getting more people to use them is going to lead to more people finding out that they have that disease.  

I am not in favor or legalizing marijuana, but I also am not adamantly against it as long as it has the same restrictions as cigarette use.  I am very much opposed to legalizing the hard stuff. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Experts want to tell you cannabis is a gateway drug. They say it makes you crave a bigger and better high. I have no idea if that is true or not but I will say as long as it's being sold on the black market, people very well may experiment with harder drugs. Because many of the cannabis dealers also sell the harder drugs. 

Someone said something like "You can't legislate morality". And this is so true. If something is illegal, there's going to be a demand for it. Whether it's gambling, alcohol or drugs. Heck, even prostitution. 

The  'gateway' question even if true, is more complex. Is it the use of MJ that encourages a passage to harder drugs, or the contact with the illegal supply chain and its "marketing" that illicit use requires and acclimated peer acceptance that comes with moving in an already outlaw community? To the extent that those latter factors dominate, and I tend to believe they do, then legalization actually eliminates that aspect of the gateway.

For those with highly 'addictive' psycho/physiologies, alcohol, a much more powerful addictant, is already available. Legalization of MJ does not increase the danger level from addictants in a world already awash in alcohol.

And following from that point is where you clearly cross a line with opiates. For too many people, the addictive power of opiates is just too great for higher ordered rational thinking to matter, so making them unavailable or as difficult to obtain as possible is worth the legal and social cost of doing so  - which is high, and thus should not be applied other then when worth those costs. Opiates meet that criteria, whereas marijuana does not. TBH, the prohibition people were probably right that for enough the population alcohol is that dangerous, but the practical problems of controlling a substance anyone can make in their kitchen with nothing but sugar and yeast simply makes it impossible to do so.

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23 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The  'gateway' question even if true, is more complex. Is it the use of MJ that encourages a passage to harder drugs, or the contact with the illegal supply chain and its "marketing" that illicit use requires and acclimated peer acceptance that comes with moving in an already outlaw community? To the extent that those latter factors dominate, and I tend to believe they do, then legalization actually eliminates that aspect of the gateway.

For those with highly 'addictive' psycho/physiologies, alcohol, a much more powerful addictant, is already available. Legalization of MJ does not increase the danger level from addictants in a world already awash in alcohol.

And following from that point is where you clearly cross a line with opiates. For too many people, the addictive power of opiates is just too great for higher ordered rational thinking to matter, so making them unavailable or as difficult to obtain as possible is worth the legal and social cost of doing so  - which is high, and thus should not be applied other then when worth those costs. Opiates meet that criteria, whereas marijuana does not. TBH, the prohibition people were probably right that for enough the population alcohol is that dangerous, but the practical problems of controlling a substance anyone can make in their kitchen with nothing but sugar and yeast simply makes it impossible to do so.

Oh, I agree with you. In my experience, alcohol lowers a person's inhibitions much more than cannabis. For some reason (legality?) alcohol is much more socially acceptable.  People who use cannabis are on drugs but you rarely hear an alcoholic referred to as being on drugs. When, in fact, alcohol is a drug. A much more dangerous drug than cannabis. People can die from an alcohol  overdose . And people get very sick trying to kick alcohol.  Cannabis, from my experience, not so much. And cannabis was originally outlawed for racist reasons. I'm just not sure if we should make cannabis legal or not. Once that genie is out if the bottle.....

 

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3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

 Once that genie is out if the bottle.....

 

IDK. sometimes 'slippery slope' arguments appeal to my sense of logic, other times it feels that every piece of ground we stand on is slipping in one direction or another and we just have to deal with it.    ?

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14 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

IDK. sometimes 'slippery slope' arguments appeal to my sense of logic, other times it feels that every piece of ground we stand on is slipping in one direction or another and we just have to deal with it.    ?

Yeah, I know. There are way too many reasons to legalize it. Wasting money on police, courts and jails. As well as ruining lives by giving people police records. And we can't ignore the tax money, even though it won't lower our taxes at all, it will just go to all the crooked politicians. Take that money away from the cartels and the black market. People who want to get stoned are going to get stoned whether it's legal or not. We may as well make it easier for them.  ?

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All beer does not taste the same.  My wife thinks it does because she hates it and when I insist something doesn’t taste bad she tries it and tells me it still tastes like beer.  I don’t get it.  She can drink shock top varieties after races. Otherwise I get her beer ticket. 

I usually wear out a style for a month or so then move on.  Now it’s stout season. All done with IPA this year. M-43 was my go to but I’m done with that too. Too sweet.  

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On 11/4/2018 at 1:30 PM, Sports_Freak said:

Yeah, I know. There are way too many reasons to legalize it. Wasting money on police, courts and jails. As well as ruining lives by giving people police records. And we can't ignore the tax money, even though it won't lower our taxes at all, it will just go to all the crooked politicians. Take that money away from the cartels and the black market. People who want to get stoned are going to get stoned whether it's legal or not. We may as well make it easier for them.  ?

The issue of law enforcement abuses re the war on drugs was #1 in changing my mind re legalized recreational use.  The cartels and gangs were #2.

I have never cared much what people do in the privacy of their homes.  I just hope a way can be found to minimize intoxicated driving and access or exposure by children.  

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This issue was my hardest decision, by far, of the entire election. The arguments for recreational legality, in the end, outweighed my fears of legalization. It came down to the wire for my decision. I actually had my marker ready to fill in the no box, shook my head and marked the yes box. A very hard decision, IMO.  I have a feeling there will be no winners on this issue and if passed,  it may be something we all regret. 

Now, turn up that Pink Floyd. Turn on, tune in and drop out. Dang hippies, take a bath. ?

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