Jump to content

TheCouga

2012-13 Offseason Discussion

Recommended Posts

I thi k why te marlins did is extremely smart as a baseball move. The team they had, after spending big and before any trades, was pretty much terrible. Why continue paying high salaries just so you can win 75 games the next 2-3 years.

They home grown players they trade were a declining Hanley, declining Johnson with one year left, and expiring anibal. Everyone else they signed and flipped for prospects.

They made a very small investment last offseason and were able to substantially bolster their farm system.

They were going to win in 2013-14 anyway. They have a chance now in 2013 to see which of these prospects develop, and they can supplement going forward with free agents as needed.

Free agents will still sign there. In the vast majority of cases, money talks, just like it did last offseason when Miami spent big.

I just really like how they purchased assets (which every team can do) and turned that into a stronger farm system. It isn't much different than paying over slot for draft picks, except you have had a chance to evaluate the prospect professionally first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thi k why te marlins did is extremely smart as a baseball move. The team they had, after spending big and before any trades, was pretty much terrible. Why continue paying high salaries just so you can win 75 games the next 2-3 years.

They home grown players they trade were a declining Hanley, declining Johnson with one year left, and expiring anibal. Everyone else they signed and flipped for prospects.

They made a very small investment last offseason and were able to substantially bolster their farm system.

They were going to win in 2013-14 anyway. They have a chance now in 2013 to see which of these prospects develop, and they can supplement going forward with free agents as needed.

Free agents will still sign there. In the vast majority of cases, money talks, just like it did last offseason when Miami spent big.

I just really like how they purchased assets (which every team can do) and turned that into a stronger farm system. It isn't much different than paying over slot for draft picks, except you have had a chance to evaluate the prospect professionally first.

Just looking at the baseball side of things I agree ... However, what they have done to that city is a disgrace. I still believe they must have paid off politicans to leverage that stadium deal so one sided in their favor. And what they promised in return, was increased revenue on sales tax, building up the area around the stadium with more businesses and a desire to win. Great, they made a pure baseball move that allienates the fans even more and all but kills baseball in that city and gurantees a no different outlook in terms of fans than when they played at their football stadium.

Loria is a liar plain and simple. He cried and wined about losing money when the truth is they were one of the most profitable teams in all of baseball by paying low salaries and then collecting revenue sharing profits. Now they are in the same situation except they have a brand new empty ball park financed almost soley by the citizens that they have alienated. Yea great baseball move ... but a PR move they will likely never recover from!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the Hunter move, but are the Tigers done? I think that they will make a few more moves. What are you thoughts? What have you heard?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the city finances a stadium, what is the actual tax hit on a person? How much are we talking here? Miami has a population 400,000 people I believe. The park cost $515 million and the Marlins paid $125M of that. So that leaves us with $390M to be covered by the city of miami and miami dade county. Miami dade county has a population of 2.5M.

Breakdown of the cost:

390M/400,000=$975/person

390M/2.5M=$156/person

So what is more accurate, how are these stadiums actually taxed when it comes to the resident paying for the construction cost?

Edit: And I would have to assume the tax payers were hit with more than 390M after interest, fees and other costs.

Edited by T&P_Fan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When the city finances a stadium, what is the actual tax hit on a person? How much are we talking here? Miami has a population 400,000 people I believe. The park cost $515 million and the Marlins paid $125M of that. So that leaves us with $390M to be covered by the city of miami and miami dade county. Miami dade county has a population of 2.5M.

Breakdown of the cost:

390M/400,000=$975/person

390M/2.5M=$156/person

So what is more accurate, how are these stadiums actually taxed when it comes to the resident paying for the construction cost?

Edit: And I would have to assume the tax payers were hit with more than 390M after interest, fees and other costs.

In this case, as is the case with many publicly financed stadiums, most of the cost is covered by tourist taxes, such as on hotels and rental cars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't been on in ages but wanted to weigh in on the signing. Our lineup has a lot of question marks next year. A lot of guys who have been "inconsistent" last few years

Torii hit .313 16/92 last year but .262 23/82 year before. that is a .51 pt difference in batting average

Avila hit .295 19/82 two years ago but only .243 9/48 last year. that is a .52 pt difference in batting average

Jackson hit .300 16/66 last year but .249 10/45 the year before. that is a .51 pt difference in batting average

Jhonny hit .299 21/86 two years ago but .239 13/63 last year. that is a .60 pt differenc in batting average

To a lesser extent Dirks (with limited AB) - .322 8/35 last year but .251 7/28 year before. .71 pt difference in average

thats over half our starters who last two years have had .50+ point differences in batting average. And another starter is coming off a season without playing a game.

I would expect Omar to hit in the .270s and Miguel and Prince to do what they do, but I think the rest of the lineup is full of question marks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In this case, as is the case with many publicly financed stadiums, most of the cost is covered by tourist taxes, such as on hotels and rental cars.

So all of those most be projected costs than. So if tourism is down the taxes on hotels and rental cars go up.

Real interesting stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Backup C, and a starter are next...

Unless its Holaday at C and Porcello and Smiley...which isn't too bad. I like Laird's Defense and game calling though...might hope to see him back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony Paul ‏@TonyPaul1984

Jim Bowden, who was first on the #Tigers pursuit of Hunter, now says the #Tigers are looking at another outfielder: Cody Ross.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tony Paul ‏@TonyPaul1984

I'd like to see Ross here. LOVE the Hunter signing.

Absolutely appreciate Mr. Illitch more than words can express for a baseball owner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they have to sign Ross also, then you really have to look at the Tigers inability to develop a corner OFer. This is ridiculous. I happen to think Dirks will do just fine until Castellanos/Garcia are ready.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No need to sign Ross when they have Dirks. If they get an outfielder it will either be a big name or a platoon guy (which Ross won't want to do).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think the trade is that bad. Its not all that different from them not having signed the Buehrle and Reyes last year and flipping Johnson for prospects. I wonder if they will spend any of the money at all. That's a factor as well. Toronto is looking good either way though.

how do you spend the money when you just traded away everyone you signed last year? nobody worth the money is going to sign there without a no-trade. Seems Pujols was the only one who saw through the BS last winter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ross is basically a better version of Ryan Raburn. He can certainly demolish LHP and fields decently enough...if he's on he's also decent enough against RHP to be a regular or semi-regular. I would not be opposed to getting him, but folks should not expect him to repeat what he did in 2012, that was a bit of an up-year for him, and he's turning 33.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ross is basically a better version of Ryan Raburn. He can certainly demolish LHP and fields decently enough...if he's on he's also decent enough against RHP to be a regular or semi-regular. I would not be opposed to getting him, but folks should not expect him to repeat what he did in 2012, that was a bit of an up-year for him, and he's turning 33.

Reed Johnson is a cheaper option and could probably be had on a one year deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony Paul was referencing a Jim Bowden tweet that came yesterday, before the Hunter signing.

On another note, I just read that Miami intends on starting Hechevarria at SS this spring and moving Escobar to 3b or (more likely) trading him.

Escobar is set to make 5 mil in 13, with 5 million dollar team options on him in 2014 and 15. Even in a down offensive year in 2012, he was still worth 2.5 bWAR, most of that coming from the glove. In comparison, Peralta was worth .8 last year and .7 in 2010 (but 3.5 in 2011).

Escobar is obviously a bit of a headcase, but could be an interesting trade candidate if the Tigers want to upgrade at SS for cheap. Peralta should not be too hard to spin off if this were to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Reed Johnson is a cheaper option and could probably be had on a one year deal.

The problem with Reed Johnson is that he's now a pretty bad fielder, even in the corner OF spots, and has zero power. He does hit some singles against LHP. He's basically Delmon Young without power at this point. We can do better without breaking the bank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott Hairston might make a nice platoon partner for Dirks to solve the LF questions...so could Melky Cabrera, or Shane Victorino, both on better, bargain deals than the Swishers, Hamilton, Bourns, the Uptons whowhatev...

As far guys with baggage or bad attitudez...i scoff.

Melky, Yunel Escobar will walk into a wall of intolerance of bs from Leyland, his coaches VMart, and Miggy .and now Torii...im not worried ..what a bunch of media darlings our Tigers are becoming...thru and thru.. Leylands specializing in " attitudez" and drama before...this team is built for taking exactly these types of risks imo.

The pay off of adding positive production from Melky, and Escobar , ad well as the trade off of flipping Peralta for another useful piece could pay huge dividends and be a key difference maker between this past offseason and next year .

I believe ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The problem with Reed Johnson is that he's now a pretty bad fielder, even in the corner OF spots, and has zero power. He does hit some singles against LHP. He's basically Delmon Young without power at this point. We can do better without breaking the bank.

Agree, however the more I think about it DD has never shown a willingness to pick up free agent bench players or platoon options. He's traded for a few but I have a stange feeling they probably stay internal and likely ride it out for a while with four outfielders, a backup catcher, DH and infielder. They usually leave the door open for internal options, not saying I agree but what history has shown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd like to see Ross here. LOVE the Hunter signing.

I like the Hunter signing. But I like it even more if they sign Ross. Initially, I wanted them to go big and go after Hamilton, but if they use Hamilton money to get two guys instead of one, I think that's a really prudent move. First of all, the risk is distributed among two players, not one. So if one gets injured, you still have the other guy. Second of all, the commitment in terms of years is much less, so again the risk is mitigated.

Improving on both corner OF positions also improves our WAR in two needed areas--not as much at each one individually had we gone after Hamilton, but enough at both combined that it equals adding a Hamilton-level bat cumulatively. Of course, with much less risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like the Hunter signing. But I like it even more if they sign Ross. Initially, I wanted them to go big and go after Hamilton, but if they use Hamilton money to get two guys instead of one, I think that's a really prudent move. First of all, the risk is distributed among two players, not one. So if one gets injured, you still have the other guy. Second of all, the commitment in terms of years is much less, so again the risk is mitigated.

Improving on both corner OF positions also improves our WAR in two needed areas--not as much at each one individually had we gone after Hamilton, but enough at both combined that it equals adding a Hamilton-level bat cumulatively. Of course, with much less risk.

Generally speaking, the Tigers have done a good job of avoiding black-hole positions.....I *still* don't understand what possessed them to put Raburn at 2B, then to leave him there for so long last year....I at least understood Delmon at DH and Boesch in RF, even if they were not good players they could at least hold their own, but the way they stuck with Boesch was ridiculous too.

I agree that Ross would be a good bet to keep a position from being a black hole...and he would definitely be a lefty-killer...not sure if he'd like a platoon/semi-regular situation, though, especially after his "up" year in 2012.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Motown Sports Blog



×
×
  • Create New...