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2012-13 Offseason Discussion

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Cabrera wasn't exactly tiny at 22. Besides, Stanton is ripped. I don't think he's going to fall to pieces any time soon. He reminds me a lot of Juan Gonzalez actually, who didn't start sucking until he was 32.

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Anything can happen, but I can't imagine any way the Tigers would get Stanton. Every team in MLB would be lining up to offer crazy packages for him. Not that I expect the Marlins would actually be dumb enough to trade him, but on that subject ANYTHING can happen.

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Cabrera wasn't exactly tiny at 22. Besides, Stanton is ripped. I don't think he's going to fall to pieces any time soon. He reminds me a lot of Juan Gonzalez actually, who didn't start sucking until he was 32.

Agreed. Right now, after 3 years, he looks like first-ballot. You empty the vault for a guy like that. Trouble is, as so many have already pointed out, the vault looks pretty empty already. But if the Marlins liked Castellanos, Garcia, Porcello, and 3 additional minor leaguers, and gave us 2 pieces of junk along with Stanton to make it look better, I'd love to see it. The Tigers would need to throw in some cash to help Loria pay for his bodyguards though.

Seriously though how could they even think about it. They have a 22-year-old stud to anchor their next rebuild.

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The Marlins might be thinking "could we have gotten more for Hanley after his OPS took the first 100pt dive than we did after the second 100pt dive?" when contemplating dealing Stanton.

Of course I'd love to have him...the only caveat being that if he's already pushing 250lbs as a 22 year-old, how long will it take him to become Adam Dunn?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GX98QfgWwWE/0.jpg

He looks big, but muscular big, not Adam Dunn big at all.

Plus, he's a terrific defensive OFer.

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Sales of Viagra among Tiger fans would plummet if they got Stanton due to constant and spontaneous orgasms of delight.

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Jackson

Hunter

Cabrera

Stanton

Fielder

Martinez

Peralta

Avila

Infante

Would seem to be one that would produce runs.

Got to imagine Prince stil hits fourth. Keeps a right-left-right middle.

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If you look at pics of Dunn and Cabrera earlier in their careers, they both look much more athletic than they do now. It doesn't really matter offensively...Miggy more so than Dunn...but I'd be somewhat concerned about Stanton's abilty to play a corner OF for me in 5 years if he continues to....grow.

Not sure I'd care if he gives me 200 or so HR's and .950 OPS over that smae five year stretch... :)

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Here's a question... if you could trade Cabrera right now for Stanton would you? I have to say I probably would.

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Here's a question... if you could trade Cabrera right now for Stanton would you? I have to say I probably would.

Probably a no for me. Cabrera will end his career as one of the best players of all time and still has at least 5 years of some serious mashing in front of him. Don't get me wrong, Stanton is awesome and he is only 22, but I keep Cabrera.

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Probably a no for me. Cabrera will end his career as one of the best players of all time and still has at least 5 years of some serious mashing in front of him. Don't get me wrong, Stanton is awesome and he is only 22, but I keep Cabrera.

The way I see it, Stanton is almost as good offensively, and possibly will be this year. He also provides good defense and is very cheap. Value-wise, he's up there with Trout and Harper right now.

I'd also like to point out that at ages 20, 21, and 22, he's better than Cabrera was at that point in all 3 seasons, and in more of a pitcher's era. It's scary how good this kid can be. He had a higher slg% last year than Cabrera did, at just 22 years old!

Edited by Yoda

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The way I see it, Stanton is almost as good offensively, and possibly will be this year. He also provides good defense and is very cheap. Value-wise, he's up there with Trout and Harper right now.

I'd also like to point out that at ages 20, 21, and 22, he's better than Cabrera was at that point in all 3 seasons, and in more of a pitcher's era. It's scary how good this kid can be. He had a higher slg% last year than Cabrera did, at just 22 years old!

It's probably the right move performance wise, but a disaster PR wise.

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Here's a question... if you could trade Cabrera right now for Stanton would you? I have to say I probably would.

I would if I truly believed in Nick C. That would open up 3B for Nick and save a ton of money in the short term. Just my opinion.

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Here's a question... if you could trade Cabrera right now for Stanton would you? I have to say I probably would.

I probably would. Especially if I get to spend the difference in salary. Maybe you could then build a Headley trade around Castellanos and Porcello.

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Here's a question... if you could trade Cabrera right now for Stanton would you? I have to say I probably would.

I would, but I would probably cringe as I did so.

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I wouldn't. If the franchise were in a different position I'd consider it but not the way the Tigers are.

Cabrera's still young. If he were 32 or 33 maybe.

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I wouldn't. If the franchise were in a different position I'd consider it but not the way the Tigers are.

Cabrera's still young. If he were 32 or 33 maybe.

The thing is, money aside, if you factor defense he may be better overall than Cabrera this year. They'll be pretty close.

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The thing is, money aside, if you factor defense he may be better overall than Cabrera this year. They'll be pretty close.

But I just feel Cabrera is so clutch, how could we let him go?

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To be clearer, from a performance standpoint, Stanton from age 23 - 29 (2013 - 2020) is clearly capable of matching Cabrera's offensive production over the same age period (2005 - 2012), albeit likely with a lot fewer singles, quite a bit more EBH and a lot more K's than Cabrera. I also didn't realize that Stanton has very good defensive numbers (both UZR and DSR) in RF, supporting something like a plus 10-15 runs saved per year defensively, versus Cabrera's negative 5-10 average defensively.

It's likely that Cabrera from 2013 - 2020 will not be quite as productive as he was from 2005 - 2012. If Stanton matches what Cabrera has done, then it's also likely that he will be more productive that Cabrera from 2013 - 2020....throw in defense and Stanton's edge grows considerably for the next 8 years.

Add to the performance factor that likely dollar difference; Cabrera's likely over the next 8 years to command at least $175MM, whereas Stanton even with a pre-arbitration long-term deal will likely make way less.

So all things being equal, Stanton is likely to have at least the same or better performance as Cabrera over the next 8 years at a far reduced price. It would **seem** like a no-brainer **theoretically**.

OTOH, trading away the fan favorite MVP/TC hero would be a crushing blow for the Tigers from a PR standpoint. Furthermore, from a risk management standpoint, the AL-to-NL league switch would be the same problem for Stanton in the first year that it was for Cabrera and others. A one-year adjustment period combined with the status of being the guy they traded our MVP away for might be enough to turn media/fans against Stanton....which could impact his performance and development negatively.

I'd love to get Stanton and I think he'd be great, and in terms of production Stanton is probably going to be better over the coming years, but the risk PR-wise and otherwise would require balls of steel to make this deal...

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Remember, a lot of fans didn't like Cabrera the first year either. They were being completely irrational but those guys are still out there.

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It was also a potential PR disaster if the Tigers would ever trade away fan favorite Granderson. But they did, and most people were fine with it because they were able to see that the Tigers got cheap talent back. I think the whole PR thing is overrated, if you get comparable or better talent for less money, most people will recognize it as a prudent move that was done to help the team win. Of course, if its a risky move that's based on projecting a player fulfilling his potential, that's a different story, but right now Stanton is equal or greater than Cabrera in talent, and is much much cheaper. I don't think it would be a PR disaster at all. Of course, this is all theoretical (hypothetical? What's the difference?) because the Marlins don't want Cabreras contract. The real question, IMO is if you make the move with the Tigers paying all of Cabrera's contract. Now it's purely a player vs. player deal, and the question becomes a lot tougher.

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It was also a potential PR disaster if the Tigers would ever trade away fan favorite Granderson. But they did, and most people were fine with it because they were able to see that the Tigers got cheap talent back. I think the whole PR thing is overrated, if you get comparable or better talent for less money, most people will recognize it as a prudent move that was done to help the team win. Of course, if its a risky move that's based on projecting a player fulfilling his potential, that's a different story, but right now Stanton is equal or greater than Cabrera in talent, and is much much cheaper. I don't think it would be a PR disaster at all. Of course, this is all theoretical (hypothetical? What's the difference?) because the Marlins don't want Cabreras contract. The real question, IMO is if you make the move with the Tigers paying all of Cabrera's contract. Now it's purely a player vs. player deal, and the question becomes a lot tougher.

I suppose a three way might be possible where we move Cabrera to a team who can pay him but isn't deep enough in prospects to make the Stanton deal themselves, they add some prospects to the package to the Marlins, we add the balance (Castellanos + Porcello or Smyly) to the package to get the Marlins to make deal.

In their history the Tigs have moved number of fan favorites; Harvery Keunn, Colavito, McLain, Granderson, and probably others that don't come to mind.

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