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2012-13 Offseason Discussion

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Well, now that that's over with, we can start talking about next year, which also looks promising for this club. We're losing zero major players, and yet we're jettisoning a lot of flotsam that held us down.

We won't be paying Valverde, Inge, Delmon or Raburn. That has to free up some payroll--some of which will be absorbed by arbitration raises. We desperately need a veteran RF that can hit.

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Also, hopefully, this thread will be a refuge from the threads involving irrational and sporadic panic attacks about how we have to fire Leyland, DD, or whoever. I think it's always fair game to discuss these things, but if your team wins the AL pennant, there's really nobody involved in its management that should "definitely" be fired.

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I think the #1 priority has to be the bench. Raburn, Boesch, Santiago, etc. were a huge minus for the team this year. I'd like to see what Castellanos and Garcia are capable of in spring training. Maybe they could take over RF or a bench role.

If they bring back the same pitching staff minus Valverde, I will be happy. Who will the closer be? Who cares. Most overrated job in MLB.

I think we'll see most of the starting lineup and pitching staff back next year so the main additions will probably be role players who can play defence with some speed and make contact.

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Trade Rick Porcello and Casey Crosby to COL for Josh Rutledge and Eddie Butler

Sign Torii Hunter (3 years/$30 MM; 12, 10, 8)

Re-sign Anibal Sanchez (2 years/$15 MM)

Re-sign Gerald Laird (1 year/$1 MM)

Re-sign Octavio Dotel (1 year/$3 MM)

2013 Opening Day Roster

Rotation:

Justin Verlander RHP

Max Scherzer RHP

Doug Fister RHP

Anibal Sanchez RHP

Drew Smyly LHP

Lineup:

Austin Jackson CF

Torri Hunter RF

Miguel Cabrera 3B

Prince Fielder 1B

Victor Martinez DH

Jhonny Peralta SS

Andy Dirks LF

Alex Avila C

Omar Infante 2B

Bullpen:

Bruce Rondon

Octavio Dotel

Joaquin Benoit

Brayan Villareal

Al Alburquerque

Duane Below

Phil Coke

Bench:

Danny Worth INF

Gerald Laird C

Quintin Berry OF

Avisail Garcia OF

2012 Opening Day Salary $132,994,000

Subtractions

Jose Valverde (-$9 MM)

Delmon Young (-$6.75 MM)

Collin Balestar (-$485K)

Clete Thomas (-$481K)

Daniel Schlereth (-$490K)

Brennan Boesch (-$502K)

Don Kelly (-$900K)

Ramon Santiago(-$2.1 MM)

Ryan Raburn (-$2.1 MM)

Rick Porcello (-$3.1 MM)

Brandon Inge (-$5.5 MM)

Total Subtracted: $29.308 MM

Additions

Anibal Sanchez (+$7.5 MM)

Torri Hunter (+$12 MM)

Added $19.5 MM

Add 500K for Jhonny Peralta

Arbitration raises (~$10 MM)

Add $10.5 MM

Total Added $30 MM

Net Change ($692K)

2013 Opening Day Salary $132,302,000 +/- $5 MM

Been working on this since about mid-September, many man changes and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree/find mistakes

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Right now, my feelings on next season are worse than they were a few weeks ago.

A few weeks ago I was starting to believe we may not make the playoffs, but I looked forward to:

1) Vmart batting 5th

2) A possible outfield of Garcia, Jackson, and Dirks

3) A new SS

4) A solid 4 person rotation of Verlander, Scherzer, Fister, and Sanchez. Maybe even seeing Smyly hold onto the 5th all year.

Now, I still see Vmart batting 5th, but

1) Did Sanchez's post season price him out of Detroit?

2) The rotation pitched deep into the playoffs

3) Did Peralta fool the team into resigning him?

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Well let's see, if we're talking about a magical ideal world where replacements are plentiful:

Trade Porcello please let it be for an outfielder that can get on base

Get rid of the following players:

Laird, Kelly, Santiago, Worth, Peralta, Young, Berry, Boesch, Valverde, Putkonen

Send Garcia back to the minors

Re-sign Sanchez

SP: Verlander, Scherzer, Fister, Sanchez, Smyly

RP: Benoit, Dotel, Coke, Villareal, Alburquerque, competition between Downs/Below/Various other guys from this year + any cheap signings

C: Avila, Someone

1B: Fielder

2B: Infante

SS: Someone

3B: Cabrera

LF: Someone

CF: Jackson

RF: Someone

DH: Martinez

Not sold on Dirks as a regular, and you need cover for V-Mart not necessarily being healthy or effective. Acquire some decent depth on minor league deals.

Acquire a decent bench.

Realistically they probably have to bring back Peralta and count on Dirks to start in LF. Hopefully they can find a RF, a nice RP, and a good bench player or two.

Obviously this is also predicated on Leyland and Dombrowski being fired and replaced by hot shot young sabermetric minded management.

edit: Can't believe I forgot the amazing Al Al

Edited by pyrotigers

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My off-season thoughts:

I hope Dotel ends up sticking around. I don't know what kind of contract he is under, I have no idea, but I hope he sticks around.

I'm an admitted Leyland hater and that hasn't changed. I think the biggest reason his teams in Detroit have "won" is because of his relationship with players but it is taken too far and becomes a fault. His loyalty to terrible players has cost the team more games than it has won them. You could even see what I'm talking about during that Valverde melt down in Yankee Stadium when Miguel was giving Leyland the stink-eye after the Raul home run went out and he was livid. I'm a proponent of taking the most talented guys, letting them play, and relying on that. That's why I think it is terrible that Avisail wasn't starting the majority of games in the playoffs when I think, between his hitting and defense, he is one of the top three outfielders (maybe the second-best) on the team. But Jim doesn't do stuff like that because he has "his guys" and his veterans that he'd rather play over the talent.

I posted this in the game-thread, and this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I'm ready to start looking for a full-time catcher. I like Avila, I really do, but his regression this year to me was the most disappointing. He doesn't seem to have the power anymore, he has started pulling everything, and his arm just doesn't look like it did in 2010/11 from behind the plate. I know he's young but a part of me feels like 2011 might have ruined his career with as much as the Tigers rode him. He broke down even earlier this season and even during the beginning part of the year, he didn't look like the player he was in 2011. I don't think he can be a 100+ game a season guy behind the plate like the Tigers seem to want him to be.

I'm also entirely ready to let Avisail start every single day in right field. But again, I'm more of a person who wants to see the most talented players play as opposed to the experienced players. I would give him the starting job right now and let him attempt to lose it rather than make him win it.

I'd also like to at least see a #5 pitcher be brought in to compete for the spot. Whether it's a veteran or a rookie, Porcello can not be handed the job by default again. Make him earn it and if Smyly looks like the better option or someone else, put Porcello in the bullpen and let it happen.

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I agree with your first two posts wholeheartedly.

My agenda for the offseason:

1. Re-sign Sanchez;

2. Acquire a RF who can at least get on base well and field reasonably well (Victorino for example);

3. Acquire a part-time RH Catcher who can hit decently (Paulino or Ross);

4. See about upgrading the SS glove-wise (Andrus or Hardy for example);

5. Re-sign Dotel;

6. Another arm in the bullpen wouldn't hurt (C. Janssen, J. Broxton, J. Affeldt, M. Belisle are some possible options)

ALSO: DON'T, PLEASE DON'T:

1. bring back Boesch, Raburn, Valverde, Kelly, Santiago, Delmon Young (nice postseason, but this guy has got to go);

2. rely on Garcia to be a regular player -- I'd prefer to see him get some time in AAA first, maybe a half-season;

3. rely on Dirks to be an everyday player;

4. re-sign Laird as the second Catcher (he's poor against LHP, no better than Avila would likely ever be, and he's not that great defensively either IMHO (not bad, but not that good either);

Edited by sabretooth

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I think the Tigers have an option on Dotel's contract for next year, which if I were Dave Dombrowski I would walk over to his locker and tell him I'm picking it up before he showers and leaves.

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I'm also entirely ready to let Avisail start every single day in right field. But again, I'm more of a person who wants to see the most talented players play as opposed to the experienced players. I would give him the starting job right now and let him attempt to lose it rather than make him win it.

I like Garcia, he showed much this year, but I for one am not ready to turn over the full time starting job to him this year. Leyland protected him by having him platoon and even with that protection he had only one extra base hit in two months. I'm sure the power will eventually come as he's young and clearly has talent, but I'd rather wait for the power to come in Toledo before turning over the starting job to him in Detroit.

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Yes!! I absolutely love these threads, as well as this time of year in general.

I also expect them to go grab a 1-year rental RFer.

I don't expect an IFer, either, as Cabrera, Peralta, Infante, and Fielder will all likely be back. Maybe someone to replace Santiago but that's about it.

At catcher, bring back Laird for another year to back up Avila. I'm not sure who is out there but this is what I'm expecting the organization to do.

Now, as far as relief pitching, Valverde will be gone or given a minor league deal. I think the org will be expecting guys like Villarreal and Al Al to continue improving. With Benoit coming back, I could see them using either he or Dotel (if he actually stays for more than a year) as a closer, and if that fails, go with more of a closer by committee. I don't think they'll actually go out and sign another closer. They have a lot of good, young arms that can step in and do an adequate job. They also have a chance to move Porcello to the bullpen if they re-sign Sanchez, though I think it's more likely he'd be traded.

I think they will be set going into 2013 with an addition-by-subtraction approach. Their first half roster was ****. It improved the 2nd half, especially on defense. Fewer AB's by Young, Boesch, Raburn, etc., and the addition of Martinez, should make a huge difference.

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Sanchez is going to be making a LOT more than $7.5 million per year. There are very few quality starters out there and a lot of teams will be looking for one (including Boston and New York). Sanchez is gone unless the Tigers want to pay him $12-15 per year for the next 5 years. I say they don't.

I think you're looking at Porcello and Smyly as 4-5 next year. I can live with that. Save your money for JV's extension.

They'll bring back Peralta at short because he's cheap. They'll sign a couple arms to compete in the pen and trade Boesch for someone else's disappointing bullpen arm. Hopefully they'll sign a right fielder on a short term deal (hopefully Torii Hunter, but I doubt he leaves southern california for detroit). Laird might come back unless they can get another right handed catcher that Jim Leyland will never use.

They need to cut Don Kelly so that Leyland can't use him anymore. Same with Raburn.

At the end of it all, the team will look an awful lot like this year's team.

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There's no doubt in my mind that Paulino or Ross would be nice upgrades on Laird, and far far better platoon options against LHP. It's a no-brainer. Please no more Laird - he had a nice season, but he is not a platoon option.

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Was he? Scherzer, Fister and Sanchez had no fight? Coke? Jackson? Peralta? Young? Cabrera?

None of those people showed "fight?" Funny beards and photobombing doesn't mean anything other than a hook Joe Buck can use.

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I like Garcia, he showed much this year, but I for one am not ready to turn over the full time starting job to him this year. Leyland protected him by having him platoon and even with that protection he had only one extra base hit in two months. I'm sure the power will eventually come as he's young and clearly has talent, but I'd rather wait for the power to come in Toledo before turning over the starting job to him in Detroit.

This.

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as long as Verlander-Fister-Scherzer are your 1-2-3 and Cabrera-Fielder-Martinez are your 3-4-5, the tiger should be the favorites to go back to the world series.

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I like Garcia, he showed much this year, but I for one am not ready to turn over the full time starting job to him this year. Leyland protected him by having him platoon and even with that protection he had only one extra base hit in two months. I'm sure the power will eventually come as he's young and clearly has talent, but I'd rather wait for the power to come in Toledo before turning over the starting job to him in Detroit.

See I disagree with bringing young guys up and putting them in a platoon situation. I think that's better for veterans. I think the worst thing to do is bring up a young guy, like Garcia, and make sure 95% of his at-bats are against left-handed pitchers. That's not how you learn to hit and guys at that age need the experience of hitting pitchers from both sides. At that age, they can get in the mindset of kind of "forgetting" how to approach a right-handed pitcher then and struggle when faced with that as a full-time starter, whenever that may be. I think Garcia is one of the three best outfielders in the entire organization and therefore I believe he should be starting for the top team in the organization. Just like I believe Bruce Rondon is one of the seven best relief pitchers in the organization and I believe he should be in the bullpen for the Tigers starting today.

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I would agree that Garcia is one of the three best outfielders in the organization --- Which is why they need to sign more outfielders. I don't think it would be a good thing if they're forced to rely on the production of Garcia, or have him learning to hit RHP at the major league level in 2013.

Also someone posted about Santiago, I think he's signed through next year as well.

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Trade Rick Porcello and Casey Crosby to COL for Josh Rutledge and Eddie Butler

Sign Torii Hunter (3 years/$30 MM; 12, 10, 8)

Re-sign Anibal Sanchez (2 years/$15 MM)

Re-sign Gerald Laird (1 year/$1 MM)

Re-sign Octavio Dotel (1 year/$3 MM)

Why would Sanchez take a two year contract below market value?

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Also someone posted about Santiago, I think he's signed through next year as well.

I have no objection to Ramon coming to ST, but they better not leave him on the 25 next season if he does not show a lot better movement in ST than he has this season. They can afford $2.1 mill not to carry that bad a bench player for 162 games.

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I have no objection to Ramon coming to ST, but they better not leave him on the 25 next season if he does not show a lot better movement in ST than he has this season.

Oh, I'm totally cool if they want to turn over his role to Danny Worth (who seemingly has been Santiago-in-training for about 5 years now), I'm just noting that if they do it they're going to have to eat a contract that is in force, because he is signed through next year.

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Oh, I'm totally cool if they want to turn over his role to Danny Worth (who seemingly has been Santiago-in-training for about 5 years now), I'm just noting that if they do it they're going to have to eat a contract that is in force, because he is signed through next year.

right - I was noting his contract status in an edit as you posted.

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