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Boesch and Berry

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The other side of the arg about Boesch is that he's not exactly young any more.

Actually, he's pretty similar to Young except for the handedness. :happy:

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Actually, he's pretty similar to Young except for the handedness. :happy:

Boesch seems to get down the line pretty fast. He's not an intuitive baserunner, it seems, but he does have some speed. Speed is just another component missing from Young's game.

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Am I the only one here that's really optimistic about Dirks moving forward? Excluding Jackson, he's been the biggest surprise this year. The kid can flat out hit all of a sudden. And it began in the AFL last year. Walking a decent amount, not striking out very often... what's not to like? He does have a high BABIP but he's slugging very well so he's still an above-average player, even if/when it does level off.

I sure hope he keeps it up. It'd be huge to have him locking down an OF spot next year. Everything becomes a lot more simple at that point.

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Am I the only one here that's really optimistic about Dirks moving forward? Excluding Jackson, he's been the biggest surprise this year. The kid can flat out hit all of a sudden. And it began in the AFL last year. Walking a decent amount, not striking out very often... what's not to like? He does have a high BABIP but he's slugging very well so he's still an above-average player, even if/when it does level off.

I agree with you about Dirks being a very good suprise. The thing I think has gotten everybody not 100% sold on him is that he's got a odd track record going so far. For instance,last year he was sort of craddled in his appearances and for 2011, Dirks drew 188 AB's against RHP and hit .239 against them. But got only 31 ABs against LHP and only hit .323 against them. To make things more interesting, fast forward to this year and he's got 117 AB's against RHP and he's hitting .359 against them and in 30 AB's against LHP he's hitting .208 so far this year. Great numbers in some respects, but sort of odd to digest and make predictions with.

This coupled with the injuries has really sort of left a lot of fans wondering what Dirks is really capable of. Truthfully I think he's a pretty decent hitter and ok with a glove and I think the Tigers certainly plan on giving him a starting corner outfield spot as long as he keeps hitting at a fair rate. I'd love to see what Dirks can do with regular AB's over a full season and I think a lot of fans are simply reserving judgement until Dirks is more of a regular.

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And truthfully, I do think the Tigers have some good talent between Jackson, Dirks, Boesch, Berry and Castellanos in that they can have a decent outfield between those 5 players and keeping the total salary under say a combined $6.75M (you know, the amount a single Delmon Young is making this year?) for 2013?

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Ok, I'll bite, which outfielder you talkin' about?

Jackson. I think Dirks has a shot, but I'd see him more as a 4th outfielder at this point unless he keeps hitting the rest of the year. Berry, Boesch, Young, and Raburn if you want to count him I have zero confidence in.

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Jackson. I think Dirks has a shot, but I'd see him more as a 4th outfielder at this point unless he keeps hitting the rest of the year. Berry, Boesch, Young, and Raburn if you want to count him I have zero confidence in.

I'd like to see Dirks as a David Murphy type player. He'd pair with a Jeff Baker/Andruw Jones/Matt Diaz pre 2011 type in a corner OF spot extremely well.

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The league has learned how to pitch to Berry. If he now makes adjustments at the plate, he will continue to be a major league player. If he does not, he will be back in the minors.

I don't think that the Tigers will go to spring training next spring with Young, Berry, Boesch and Dirks on their roster. Just my opinion.

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This guy should dh. That guy should dh. If & when V-Mart comes back it will all be silent. The guy who should be dh will be.

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YOU ARE 100% WRONG! He will be playing in the bigs for the remainder of his career. He got a taste of it and has the drive and compassion to stay here. He is a decent hitter but with so many other attributes will be to difficult to leave out.

grandma_g.jpg

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Why are we discussing Boesch vs. Berry? It should be Berry vs. Young. Leyland got it right the first game Dirks came back: Dirks in RF, Jackson in CF, Berry in LF and Boesch at DH with Young on the bench. Against left handed pitchers then Young is the DH with Boesch in RF and Dirks in LF.

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Am I the only one here that's really optimistic about Dirks moving forward? Excluding Jackson, he's been the biggest surprise this year. The kid can flat out hit all of a sudden. And it began in the AFL last year. Walking a decent amount, not striking out very often... what's not to like? He does have a high BABIP but he's slugging very well so he's still an above-average player, even if/when it does level off.

No you are not. Minus AJ, Dirks has been the biggest surprise IMO. It appears he has staying power if he can remain healthy. The problem is we have him on a one year 500k contract so I am assuming he is due a raise next year. How much is Dirks worth? 20 for 4? 13 for 3?

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He's not due a raise until after next year, and even then it won't be much of one until he's actually eligible for free agency in a few years.

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Dirks will be making well under a million per year for a while. He's not eligible for arbitration until 2015 and he won't be a free agent until 2018.

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He's not due a raise until after next year, and even then it won't be much of one until he's actually eligible for free agency in a few years.

I don't think Dirks will be eligible until 2014. There are a lot of factors at play here, though. The cut off for super two status was 2 years 146 days of service time last year. Dirks, after next season, will have 2 years 139 days. In 2009, the cutoff was exactly 2 years 139 days, and in 2010 it was 2 years 122 days (super low, the average is closer to 140+). It's a bit arbitrary.

Also, you need to be in the top 22 percent of total players in order to qualify. I also am not sure how Dirks will stack up, or if he'll be eligible to qualify, as he'll only accumulate 1000 PA at most.

Edited by alwaysthrowheat

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He's not due a raise until after next year, and even then it won't be much of one until he's actually eligible for free agency in a few years.

Cots showed him on a one year with no arb...honest question because I do not know, but it looks to me as if we only have him signed through this year:

Andy Dirks lf

1 year/$0.485M (2012)

■1 year/$0.485M (2012)

■re-signed by Detroit 2/22/12

■1 year (2011)

■contract purchased by Detroit 5/13/11

■drafted by Detroit 2008 (8-253) (Wichita State)

■$35,000 signing bonus

■ML service: 0.127

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Cots showed him on a one year with no arb...honest question because I do not know, but it looks to me as if we only have him signed through this year:

Andy Dirks lf

1 year/$0.485M (2012)

■1 year/$0.485M (2012)

■re-signed by Detroit 2/22/12

■1 year (2011)

■contract purchased by Detroit 5/13/11

■drafted by Detroit 2008 (8-253) (Wichita State)

■$35,000 signing bonus

■ML service: 0.127

Jackson has the same thing. Do you really think Jackson would have signed for 1 year under .5 million if he had any other option.

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Cots showed him on a one year with no arb...honest question because I do not know, but it looks to me as if we only have him signed through this year:

Andy Dirks lf

1 year/$0.485M (2012)

■1 year/$0.485M (2012)

■re-signed by Detroit 2/22/12

■1 year (2011)

■contract purchased by Detroit 5/13/11

■drafted by Detroit 2008 (8-253) (Wichita State)

■$35,000 signing bonus

■ML service: 0.127

That is how every single player in the league is that is pre arbitration and not signed to an extension is. I find this rather ironic, because JBK has blocked at least 50% of the people who could explain this to him.

Edited by alwaysthrowheat

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I think "speed guys" get regularly over-rated because fans generally go back to their own experience when thinking of a player's value. Having speed is probably the thing that matters less and less as you go up through the baseball ranks. For example, a really quick guy can wreak havoc as a high school or college player simply by putting the ball in play and letting his legs do the work. He can get on base more and steal a lot more bases. In the pro ranks, fielders' arms are so strong that getting by on speed alone just isn't good enough. Infield singles turn into ground-outs, leaving you off the basepaths, and you can't steal first base.

It's not that Berry is a terrible player or human but as has been pointed out, he's on the decline. He seems like a great person and I'm sure he's loving this opportunity, but there is a reason it took him so long to get a chance in the MLB

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Berry is what he is, but I like him as a 4th OF type. It'd be nice if he could use his speed a little better defensively though. I like having some speed on the bench though.

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Jackson. I think Dirks has a shot, but I'd see him more as a 4th outfielder at this point unless he keeps hitting the rest of the year. Berry, Boesch, Young, and Raburn if you want to count him I have zero confidence in.

It's funny how 3/4ths of a season can change a person's mind.

remember this post?

Why do you need WAR to say Jackson is not one of the top 15 CFs in MLB?

First of all, their are only 21 CFs who have played enough to qualify for the batting title, so not being top 15 is more along the lines of being 'really bad' than 'average' let's take a look

OBP: 16

Slugging: 20

OPS: 18

BB%: 6 (here is an area for positivity)

K%: 20 (not so much)

HR: 18

SB: 9

UZR/150: 7

So he's an above average defender and base stealer, and bad in pretty much every aspect of hitting. What about this player suggests: He's a top CF in MLB?

I get it, he's young, and his improving walk rate is an encouraging sign. But he still strikes out a ton and doesn't hit for any power. He's actually striking out MORE THAN HE DID LAST YEAR!! Just because a player is young doesn't mean they will automatically get better, Dirks is young, Wells is young, David Purcey was young once.

By no means am I saying the Tigers should just look to trade Austin Jackson for nothing, but as things stand now he's a below average player at his position.

Interesting....?

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Interesting....?

What about it? He clearly said "at this time". Why's that so interesting?

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What about that post wasn't true at the time?

That with only two years in the majors some we all but writting Jackson off. Pyrotigers found confidence in Jackson now. Not bad for "an above average defender and base stealer, and bad in pretty much every aspect of hitting."

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That with only two years in the majors some we all but writting Jackson off. Pyrotigers found confidence in Jackson now. Not bad for "an above average defender and base stealer, and bad in pretty much every aspect of hitting."

He was all of those things last year.

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