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2012 Trade Deadline Discussion thread!!!

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Oh good, the White Sox get another useful player for absolutely nothing. What the hell is Kenny Williams doing to people? Hypnosis?

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Oh good, the White Sox get another useful player for absolutely nothing. What the hell is Kenny Williams doing to people? Hypnosis?

I would question the "useful player" part of your post. Liriano is pretty bad.

The Twins may have done the Tigers a favor. I wouldn't want him as a SP or even a long reliever.

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I would question the "useful player" part of your post. Liriano is pretty bad.

The Twins may have done the Tigers a favor. I wouldn't want him as a SP or even a long reliever.

Since the Twins put Liriano back in the rotation this is what he's done:

67 IP - 27 ER - 79 K - 29 BB

Yeah, I'd take that. He's Francisco Liriano, he could easily be terrible the rest of the year, but he could also be one of the best pitchers in the league for 10 starts and just like Youkilis they got him for organizational fodder.

I mean, I would rather have Kevin Youkilis and Francisco Liriano than Omar Infante and Anibal Sanchez, and the Tigers had to give up Jacob Turner and another legit prospect while the White Sox essentially gave up nothing.

I'm not saying this as "Oh no the Tigers made a terrible trade!" I'm just surprised that the White Sox have been able to make two moves that are so in their favor. They really took advantage of the Red Sox running Youk out of town and the Twins being a dumb franchise like always.

The Tigers get Delmon Young for free and the Sox get Liriano, that just doesn't seem fair.

Edited by pyrotigers

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He didn't say that. He said he'd rather have Liriano with Turner still in the system than Sanchez and no Turner.

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you'd rather have Liriano than Sanchez? lol

For the rest of this year? Yes.

Let's compare the two scenarios:

Scenario 1: The Tigers have Anibal Sanchez, he's a good pitcher, I like him, I'd rather have him locked up to a long term contract than Liriano, but I'm merely speaking about "for the rest of this season"

Scenario 2: The Tigers have Francisco Liriano, chances are he's either really good or really bad. If he's really good they run away with the central and have a ridiculous playoff rotation, if he's really bad they still have both Smyly and Turner in AAA to replace him.

I'll take Scenario 2.

Once again, I'm not blaming the Tigers for this, it's just frustrating to see the White Sox essentially be given two possibly very useful players for garbage. I mean, I imagine in retrospect plenty of White Sox fans are still saying 'They got Miguel Cabrera for THAT???' and neither of these moves will have anything like that in long lasting value...but for the rest of this season it's worrisome.

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I mean, I imagine in retrospect plenty of White Sox fans are still saying 'They got Miguel Cabrera for THAT???'

Only every ****ing time he comes to the plate.

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Hunter Pence is the latest rumored to be availble. Do we have enough left minus Castellanos to get him? Would fill a huge corner OF need. Right handed, 823 OPS over last three years.

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I'd prefer a shortstop that can actually hit before another corner outfielder.

This is just wrong. Jhonny Peralta is a solidly average SS offensively and defensively. He's not great. He's not good. But he's solidly average. We currently have at least one corner OF position and DH that are filled by WELL below average players. Upgrading a position that is way below average is more important than upgrading a position that's average. It's also WAY easier. Not to mention, there are far more corner OF out there that can hit .725-.775 and aren't the worst fielders in the world (Delmon Young/Brennan Boesch) than there are above average SS.

Rob

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How do the minor league players the angels gave up compare to Turner, Brantly, and Flynn?

I'm assuming that the Tigers gave up more because they also got Infante in return.

Would you rather have Greinke for two months or Sanchez for two months and Infante for 1year and 2 months?

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He didn't say that. He said he'd rather have Liriano with Turner still in the system than Sanchez and no Turner.

And that's not even close. I'd make the Liriano deal 1000x before I'd make the Sanchez deal. We gave up TOP talent and got a pitcher that's only marginally superior to Liriano. The Sox gave up nothing. Neither of those guys are in their top 10 list. Complete organizational filler. It would be the equivalent of us trading Wade Gaynor and Ramon Garcia. Like I said in the conversation about the Tigers trade: We paid too much.

Rob

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Add in the fact that Infante has had a .600 OPS the past two months and the trade doesn't look like a big upgrade so far.

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Hunter Pence is the latest rumored to be availble. Do we have enough left minus Castellanos to get him? Would fill a huge corner OF need. Right handed, 823 OPS over last three years.

Given that he's a rental, I'd think that we might be able to get him with Rondon+Garcia or Smyly/Rondon, or something of that sort. He'd sure as heck help us out a lot.

Rob

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Hunter Pence is signed through 2013.

Ok, I may be confused. These stories lead me to believe he had only a 1 year contract.

Hunter Pence, Phillies agree to $10.4 million deal

Hunter Pence Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

But I see from baseball reference that post 2012 he may be arbitration eligible as opposed to an FA.

My mistake- So given that...I don't think the packages I named would be enough to get him. Maybe Smyly/Rondon/Garcia?

Rob

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This is just wrong. Jhonny Peralta is a solidly average SS offensively and defensively. He's not great. He's not good. But he's solidly average. We currently have at least one corner OF position and DH that are filled by WELL below average players. Upgrading a position that is way below average is more important than upgrading a position that's average. It's also WAY easier. Not to mention, there are far more corner OF out there that can hit .725-.775 and aren't the worst fielders in the world (Delmon Young/Brennan Boesch) than there are above average SS.

Rob

I like Peralta, but how can one be solidly average? It's like my kid coming home with a report card stating that he's a solid C student.

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This is just wrong. Jhonny Peralta is a solidly average SS offensively and defensively. He's not great. He's not good. But he's solidly average. We currently have at least one corner OF position and DH that are filled by WELL below average players. Upgrading a position that is way below average is more important than upgrading a position that's average. It's also WAY easier. Not to mention, there are far more corner OF out there that can hit .725-.775 and aren't the worst fielders in the world (Delmon Young/Brennan Boesch) than there are above average SS.

Rob

I think its pretty fair to say he's good actually. He's in the top third at worst of starting SSs in this league right now. 6th in WAR, 3rd last year. Yah, again, WAR isn't everything or close, but the point is when you look at the list, you don't see anyone ranked below him that you would move ahead of him for sure.

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I like Peralta, but how can one be solidly average? It's like my kid coming home with a report card stating that he's a solid C student.

C isn't average. C is passing. For C to be average near half of the students would have to fail, and in that case you'd be just fine with your solid C child.

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Ok, I may be confused. These stories lead me to believe he had only a 1 year contract.

Hunter Pence, Phillies agree to $10.4 million deal

Hunter Pence Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

But I see from baseball reference that post 2012 he may be arbitration eligible as opposed to an FA.

My mistake- So given that...I don't think the packages I named would be enough to get him. Maybe Smyly/Rondon/Garcia?

Rob

Guys sign one year deals to avoid arbitration a lot even though they are still under team control the following year. No way I'd give up that package for him though. Not with Turner gone. Phillies might be willing to take on Boesch as they have no OFs for the short term. He has some history of production in the majors, he's been hot lately and they might think they can fix him with a change of scenery. Boesch,Garcia and a couple lesser name pitching prospects is probably the most I'd go.

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Since the Twins put Liriano back in the rotation this is what he's done:

67 IP - 27 ER - 79 K - 29 BB

Yeah, I'd take that. He's Francisco Liriano, he could easily be terrible the rest of the year, but he could also be one of the best pitchers in the league for 10 starts and just like Youkilis they got him for organizational fodder.

I mean, I would rather have Kevin Youkilis and Francisco Liriano than Omar Infante and Anibal Sanchez, and the Tigers had to give up Jacob Turner and another legit prospect while the White Sox essentially gave up nothing.

I'm not saying this as "Oh no the Tigers made a terrible trade!" I'm just surprised that the White Sox have been able to make two moves that are so in their favor. They really took advantage of the Red Sox running Youk out of town and the Twins being a dumb franchise like always.

The Tigers get Delmon Young for free and the Sox get Liriano, that just doesn't seem fair.

I agree, in our eyes the WSox gave up nothing. But that's because I know very little about the upside of IF Eduardo Escobar and LHP Pedro Hernandez.

But, I would much rather have Sanchez and Infante. Giving up Turner hurts, especially if he turns out to be a solid #2 or #3 pitcher.

If the Tigers decide to not sign Sanchez, we'll still have an off-season to deal for another SP. But we also have Smyly and a few others who could be our #4 or #5 SP.

Youkilis will come down to earth and suck. And Liriano is a disaster waiting to happen each and every time he takes the mound. The guy has control issues, he's injury prone and his ceiling has already been topped out. Would you seriously trade Sanchez for him, straight up? I would rather see Below as a SP than him. At least Below can throw strikes.

For this season, the WSox made these moves out of desperation. But neither one of these guys are going to help them, long term. And short term, I don't think it's enough for them to compete for the A.L. Championship. Meanwhile, the Tigers now have a 2nd baseman and a very good #4 SP. And both of these guys can help us, long term, if the Tigers decide to try and sign Sanchez.

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Guys sign one year deals to avoid arbitration a lot even though they are still under team control the following year. No way I'd give up that package for him though. Not with Turner gone. Phillies might be willing to take on Boesch as they have no OFs for the short term. He has some history of production in the majors, he's been hot lately and they might think they can fix him with a change of scenery. Boesch,Garcia and a couple lesser name pitching prospects is probably the most I'd go.

I agree. No way should Smyly get dealt. The guy is really, really good. Look how far he's come in such a short time. He was still in college just a couple of years ago. He's made it to the Majors very quickly and there's no telling how good he'll end up being. As for Rondon? I hear he throws 100 MPH. He could be very valuable in the future. The only moves I want to see from the Tigers are Raburn released/traded when Dirks returns and Delmon not re-signed. And if Sanchez pitches decently, offer him a contract. Nothing huge, we don't need to take on a long term deal with him, not with a few young SP in our system. Let the WSox make desperate moves. Hopefully they will destroy their future. They have some older players who will need replacing in the near future.

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I like Peralta, but how can one be solidly average? It's like my kid coming home with a report card stating that he's a solid C student.

Did you have an actual question?

Rob

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