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Why does Leyland hate Quintin Berry?

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Well, Juan Pierre doesn't have enough ABs to qualify, but if he did his wOBA would come in tied for 13th out of 20 qualifying MLB left fielders. I think his defense is bad enough to counter out his base running so he is below average, but he's definitely not really bad this year. Of course, this is the best year he's had in almost a decade.

Oh, and of course you can probably all guess who's 20th out of 20 on this list. Delmon Young.

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Well, Juan Pierre doesn't have enough ABs to qualify, but if he did his wOBA would come in tied for 13th out of 20 qualifying MLB left fielders. I think his defense is bad enough to counter out his base running so he is below average, but he's definitely not really bad this year. Of course, this is the best year he's had in almost a decade.

Oh, and of course you can probably all guess who's 20th out of 20 on this list. Delmon Young.

Ok, I'll go with that...

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His OPS+ is above average and he runs the bases well and has a high SB%. Even with his lack of power he'd have to be a really bad fielder to call him a bad player this year and saying he's hitting badly is simply wrong. I can't find league average OPS by position but I can't imagine it is so high for a LF that being league average puts you at or below replacement level, especially when you've created 1/4 to 1/2 a win just from your stolen bases.

Q,

His OPS is .734. The league average for a LF is .766. That's non-trivially below average. "Bad" might be a touch harsh, but he's not even average with the stick. His UZR (-2.4, -8 UZR/150) is 17th out of 24 for LF over 250 innings.

I don't think I said he was replacement level. In fact, I was pretty clear I thought he was better than Delmon Young or Brennan Boesch.

So, my mistake (seriously) for using squishy language. What I meant was that he is below average offensively and below average defensively this year. And this is perhaps his best year (so far) since 2006.

Rob

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Q,

His OPS is .734. The league average for a LF is .766. That's non-trivially below average. "Bad" might be a touch harsh, but he's not even average with the stick. His UZR (-2.4, -8 UZR/150) is 17th out of 24 for LF over 250 innings.

I don't think I said he was replacement level. In fact, I was pretty clear I thought he was better than Delmon Young or Brennan Boesch.

So, my mistake (seriously) for using squishy language. What I meant was that he is below average offensively and below average defensively this year. And this is perhaps his best year (so far) since 2006.

Rob

Rob;

No apology necessary!

I sometimes hear a players name I haven't heard in a while and automatically my head goes into "That guy sucked 3 years ago!" and then that falls out of my mouth before I can think about it. I'm just as guilty at it as everyone else. I appreciate your honesty and candidness in saying what you did and it is refreshing in this forum. I'll fess up that I don't think Pierre is still that great of a player too, but his hitting has been pretty decent this year and I agree with you that he has lost a few steps on his defense as well.

We'll just say "below average" defense for now and perhaps "around average-ish-ly" offensively this year and I'll be happy to leave it at that. Again, kudos to you for taking the time to explain it the way you did!

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The fact Juan Pierre would be an upgrade over the play the Tigers have received in LF this season should tell everyone all they need to know about the quality of play in LF this year.

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Most baseball players are going to have good years and bad years...Peralta, Avila, Jackson, Young, etc... that is the nature of the beast. For me, I want Pierre on my team (or at least up until two years ago) for two things, speed on the base paths and on base percentage. Even in those years where his obp is down around .330, I think he is better than most teams leadoff hitter at the plate.

Maybe his defense is so poor that that offsets his offense but unless I am watching him day in and day out (like I do with Raburn), I have a hard time seeing this. Based on his UZR numbers, he seems pretty average.

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Most baseball players are going to have good years and bad years...Peralta, Avila, Jackson, Young, etc... that is the nature of the beast. For me, I want Pierre on my team (or at least up until two years ago) for two things, speed on the base paths and on base percentage. Even in those years where his obp is down around .330, I think he is better than most teams leadoff hitter at the plate.

Maybe his defense is so poor that that offsets his offense but unless I am watching him day in and day out (like I do with Raburn), I have a hard time seeing this. Based on his UZR numbers, he seems pretty average.

Well his defense doesn't have to be that poor to offset his offense because his offense isn't very good. A .330 OBP is not good at all for a leadoff man even if he has speed. I think if you factor in speed Pierre is an average offensive player in his good years and below average in his bad. Which would be fine except he's also a below average defender.

He's an upgrade over a Delmon Young or Brennan Boesch who can't do anything well, but that's not saying too much really.

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Well his defense doesn't have to be that poor to offset his offense because his offense isn't very good. A .330 OBP is not good at all for a leadoff man even if he has speed. I think if you factor in speed Pierre is an average offensive player in his good years and below average in his bad. Which would be fine except he's also a below average defender.

He's an upgrade over a Delmon Young or Brennan Boesch who can't do anything well, but that's not saying too much really.

I think you have very high expectations. A player with a WAR around 3 has to be considered at least an average player in my mind. Pierre has had years of 4.4, 4.7, 3.3, 2.8, and 2.9. So that is five years where at minimum, he has been at least an average corner outfielder.

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Q,

His OPS is .734. The league average for a LF is .766. That's non-trivially below average. "Bad" might be a touch harsh, but he's not even average with the stick. His UZR (-2.4, -8 UZR/150) is 17th out of 24 for LF over 250 innings.

I don't think I said he was replacement level. In fact, I was pretty clear I thought he was better than Delmon Young or Brennan Boesch.

So, my mistake (seriously) for using squishy language. What I meant was that he is below average offensively and below average defensively this year. And this is perhaps his best year (so far) since 2006.

Rob

Yep, it's all about the language. I don't consider someone in the above replacement level but below average range to be "bad" but it's really all relative. Those guys are useful on a team. Heck, we'd probably be leading the division right now if we had two of those guys instead of Boesch and Young. Instead we have the below replacement level guys that really drag your team down. Those are the kind of guys I generally call "bad."

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So, forgetting about Juan Pierre- I agree with this statement about Quintin Berry. He's free, and at this point, one of the better corner OF options we have. So, I'll "take it" for now, and start him. But I would definitely NOT want to go into 2013 with him as a corner OF starter.

Rob

I agree with this for the most part.

If Leyland decides to put Dirks (when/if he returns from the boot) back in RF and leave Berry in LF as the starting corner OF's (Prob won't happen unless Boesch gets traded), and Berry keeps is OBP at a .370 range, then maybe I'm okay with the Tigers concetrating more on shoring up the middle IF. I'm tired of feeling like I'm going to vomit every time Peralta has to field anything going to his left.

Berry coming back down to earth is a distinct possibility, though. There is enough power on this team for us to be okay carrying a guy like Berry as a 4th OF, and if better options don't present themselves, maybe even as a straight platoon situation with Raburn. It is still so early in the season, though, and we have three streak-hitting corner OF's in Young, Boesch in Raburn who could go on a tear at any point. Right now the organization has taken their chances in Leyland being able to find the hot hand out of the three, but that could change if Leyland isn't back for '13 or if they just plain change their minds due to the trio's uneven play to date.

Your guess is as good as mine.

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I think we need another left fielder like Raburn, that can knock 'em over the fence!

In the field or at the plate? :)

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