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Dirks, AJ, Delmon, Boesch et al.

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So what happens when AJ and Dirks come back? We have talked about it in various threads, but thought it was a big enough of a topic that it deserved its own thread.

Feel free to add some guys, but I think it comes down to these 5 guys. Delmon, Boesch, Jackson, Dirks, & Berry.

I think 99% of the board would like to just get rid of Delmon and roll the other 4, but even then you have at least 1 guy not in the line up every day.

There is also the reality that Delmon makes the most out of all those guys and will (deservedly so or not) get the most playing time in some capacity.

I guess we can break this down to 2 categories.

What do you think the organization WILL do?

&

What would you like them to do?

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Not sure I'd cut on Delmon yet. I'd like to ride out Berry as long as we can. I dn't expect him to sustain his play but for the time being let him play, just don't give him too much rope when he does fall off, which this organization has trouble doing.

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Delmon can hit vs LHP, Boesch can't hit vs anyone, Berry probably can't long term either. I'd send Boesch to the minors for now and wait for Berry to crater. Get rid of Young after this year but he's more useful than these other bums for now unfortunately.

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Delmon DH

Dirks RF

Jackson CF

Berry LF

Boesch Mudhens

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Sadly, they aren't going to solve this problem by cutting Delmon. I think a Boesch option is most likely unless he gets hot by the time Dirks is back. If Boesch is hitting well enough to inspire confidence, then Berry is probably the odd man out.

I'd prefer they get rid of Kelly and keep Berry.

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To me it's simple, Dirks in LF, Jackson CF, Boesch in RF platooning with Berry. Berry would be a late inning pinch runner/defensive replacement in the outfield and will spot start at times and Young will play DH and start some in LF vs. tough left handed pitching.

Young will be gone at the end of the season because the Tigers can do better in the OF, V-Mart will take the DH spot back and frankly the Tigers could spend DY's $6.75M on other things for 2013.

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Delmon DH

Dirks RF

Jackson CF

Berry LF

Boesch Mudhens

Pretty much how I would liek to see it, but the monkey in the wrench:

What if Dirks does not come back until next week and between then and now Boesch is OPS'n something silly like .950-1.100 and Berry is still doing what he has been doing...stealing bases, getting on base etc?

Do you still send Boesch down? You really can't can you? When AJ is healthy he is, no doubt (at least IMO) the CF/leadoff guy for this team, but those corners....noone really expected Dirks or Berry to do what they have done/are doing. Some people expected more out of Delmon.

It would be a nice problem to have if all those guys started playing really well and I guess that is the crux of my view on it.

If everyone plays the way they have played/can play I would like to see your line up there minus Boesch...., but what to do with Boesch if he starts killing the ball and Dirks comes back?

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Ajax up Saturday. Ortega down.

Dirks up next week. Matt young will leave, but I would consider boesch.

Avila up later. Holaday down.

Delmon isn't going anywhere for the time being. They need his mediocre bat vs lefties at the very least.

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Ajax up Saturday. Ortega down.

Dirks up next week. Matt young will leave, but I would consider boesch.

Avila up later. Holaday down.

Delmon isn't going anywhere for the time being. They need his mediocre bat vs lefties at the very least.

I forgot about Jose Ortega's spot. With that in mind, all 5 can fit on the roster, and it's not a problem. Boesch and Young can trade off DHing, the other 3 play the outfield, no problem.

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I forgot about Jose Ortega's spot. With that in mind, all 5 can fit on the roster, and it's not a problem. Boesch and Young can trade off DHing, the other 3 play the outfield, no problem.

I was not really worried about the roster spot, but more who was going to play where and how often figuring in salaries (which we ALL do not like ...when they base decisions off of them), but we know they will take that into account.

I am not sure if DH'n Boesch is a great idea, but I do liek the idea of Delmon DH'n.

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I was not really worried about the roster spot, but more who was going to play where and how often figuring in salaries (which we ALL do not like ...when they base decisions off of them), but we know they will take that into account.

I am not sure if DH'n Boesch is a great idea, but I do liek the idea of Delmon DH'n.

What's wrong with DHing Boesch? He can't field any better than Delmon.

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What's wrong with DHing Boesch? He can't field any better than Delmon.

Because Boesch is cheap and when all is said and done most likely will be the starting RF for years to come. He has been bad this year, but he was at the very least average last year so i am not sure which is which and would like to give him more time to take the spot.

I just put more stock in Boesch than I do Berry or Dirks at this point being 'the guy' in the future. I am a Boesch fan though.

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Delmon DH

Dirks RF

Jackson CF

Berry LF

Boesch Mudhens

Something like this is what the club will do. It is not what I would do. I mean, it's not bad, but Fielder should be DHing at this point, to maximize the "win baseball games" objective. I realize that they won't do that, but...

I know many here won't agree, but I would also get Eldred a 100 AB shot at DH. Young has proven, again and again that he is a .675-.700 OPS guy. He just is. Eldred may be there, and probably isn't much better, but I'd like to see him get a shot.

So, another guy I'd like to see get consideration if Dirks doesn't return is Ben Guez. I was at the Mudhens game last week, and watched him play a VERY good LF. Not a great player, and probably not a major leaguer long term. But a scrapper and an athletic guy who has upped his walk percentage and cut his K's down. I like guys that learn.

Rob

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Because Boesch is cheap and when all is said and done most likely will be the starting RF for years to come.

They're going to have to do better than that. He's a sub .700 OPS guy his last ~1000 PA. Of course, the point is arbitrary (Shelton!), but that's a lot of PA.

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They're going to have to do better than that. He's a sub .700 OPS guy his last ~1000 PA. Of course, the point is arbitrary (Shelton!), but that's a lot of PA.

It's arbitrary, but no starting corner outfielder should ever go that many PA with a sub-.700 OPS. He'll probably go on a hot streak at some point and then fall into another miserable slump. He's no better than Raburn who people think is a joke. Neither one should be starting regularly in the majors.

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Because Boesch is cheap and when all is said and done most likely will be the starting RF for years to come. He has been bad this year, but he was at the very least average last year so i am not sure which is which and would like to give him more time to take the spot.

I just put more stock in Boesch than I do Berry or Dirks at this point being 'the guy' in the future. I am a Boesch fan though.

Here's the problem with that- Yes, Boesch has had more offensive success at the major league level that either of those guys. The problem is, he's just a horrible outfielder. I mean, people gave Raburn crap (and rightly so to some degree). This guy is almost as bad as Delmon Young, and that's saying something. I just can't see putting Boesch out there consistently unless he's just an offensive monster. While he has had some success, as I said, he just ain't a monster, and I don't think he ever will be.

With the options we have, I'd rather get some better defense, because the way Boesch has hit this year, Dirks and Berry can both do that, or maybe even a little better.

Rob

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They're going to have to do better than that. He's a sub .700 OPS guy his last ~1000 PA. Of course, the point is arbitrary (Shelton!), but that's a lot of PA.

That's a pretty arbitrary number. He's a 735 OPS guy in his last 1200 and he gave us nearly 500 PAs of 800 OPS last year. Its not like there is no track record. He's streaky, but he has shown the ability to adjust and come out of it. He did last year and he has shown glimpses this year. He was better after moving out of the 2 slot, but has hit a slump again since June started. I'm not married to the idea of him playing regularly and I'm not strongly opposed to a AAA assignment, but I think you are being a bit harsh.

As far as what I'd do in regards to the OP, I think you have to keep playing Berry and Dirks until one or both of them hits a cold streak at the least. Delmon should DH regularly IMO, possibly in somewhat of a platoon with Boesch if he isn't sent down for a bit. As mentioned in another thread, our DHs are hitting something like a 604 OPS. These 2 can probably give us something slightly over a 700 at least and they get less chance to hurt us with their defense this way. If they send Boesch down, I think they call Eldred back up and use him at DH with Delmon subbing in for either Dirks or Berry against lefties. I still think Worth needs to play the majority of games at 2B for the defense he brings that nobody else can. He can complete a lot of our near double plays and turn some of these errors into outs.

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Yeah, it's unfortunate- I think that going into 2012, the Tigers have at least 2, and maybe 3 positions that I think they need to upgrade to get to where they have a below average or better player there. Maybe 4.

2b and rf are no brainers in my opinion. I don't think there is anyone in the organization that will be ready to be at least a below average major leaguer at either position next year.

probably lf - Dirks might fill the bill, but really, his CEILING is below average.

probably ss - Peralta is not terrible. He is a below average to average SS at this point. The problem is, if you're going to keep Cabrera at 3b (which we should not), you can't have a limited range guy like Peralta playing SS. It just doesn't work.

Rob

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He's a 735 OPS guy in his last 1200

Fair enough, but that's not very good for a corner outfielder who can't field. Between 2010-2012, he's got the worst WAR of any RF with 1000 or more PA.

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Because Boesch is cheap and when all is said and done most likely will be the starting RF for years to come. He has been bad this year, but he was at the very least average last year so i am not sure which is which and would like to give him more time to take the spot.

I just put more stock in Boesch than I do Berry or Dirks at this point being 'the guy' in the future. I am a Boesch fan though.

Worry about that once Boesch actually manages to show a pulse. So long as he and Delmon are hitting like garbage and Berry is playing reasonably well, there's no reason to have either Delmon or Boesch fumbling around in the outfield.

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Fair enough, but that's not very good for a corner outfielder who can't field. Between 2010-2012, he's got the worst WAR of any RF with 1000 or more PA.

He and Elmon have a combined 2.4 WAR for their careers. Between them. 4300 PA. 2.4 WAR.

Jackson has 2.5 WAR already this year.

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Worry about that once Boesch actually manages to show a pulse. So long as he and Delmon are hitting like garbage and Berry is playing reasonably well, there's no reason to have either Delmon or Boesch fumbling around in the outfield.

I hear ya, but again it is a matter of what they will do and what we would like them to do. I am not totally agains tthe idea of playing the player who is performing better at the moment, but that can also have ramifications. You could play the rookie over the semi vet in the short term and piss of the semi vet to the point where he may want to walk. In this case not a ton would be lost because even when Boesch was going well he was no world beater.....it is a balancing act...a tough one IMO and something I am not sure people take into account enough.

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Fair enough, but that's not very good for a corner outfielder who can't field. Between 2010-2012, he's got the worst WAR of any RF with 1000 or more PA.

True, and this year has dampened my opinion of him. However, if we have a good fielder in left and he can OPS 800, we won't be in too bad of shape IMO. His lows have been really low, so its hard to get a grasp on whether he is bad, streaky or still developing(I know he's old for that). He did seem like he kind of figured things out last year though, his approach was much better than this year. Now I don't know what to think. This year at least, he can probably help at DH if he can get his swing right.

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