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Sting

Need an eye in the sky!

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That clown Selig needs to get with the times. Put a damn guy up in a booth that can see the replays and overturn an obvious blown call. It's ******** to get so thoroughly screwed like the Tigers did today. Not saying the Tigers would have won the game, but just maybe. I can't remember umps being so fricken bad in the past, they may have been, but I can't remember when.

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Good teams still get screwed by umpires. It's just magnified when you happen to be a bad team that can't over come a bad call.

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Good teams still get screwed by umpires. It's just magnified when you happen to be a bad team that can't over come a bad call.

I agree, but bad calls shouldn't have to screw any team. We have the technology, it's just a matter of using it.

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I agree, but bad calls shouldn't have to screw any team. We have the technology, it's just a matter of using it.

Agreed. I wouldn't continue to eat at a high priced restaurant that screwed up 20% of the meals they served or continue to go to the same barber the messes up 2 or 3 haircuts a year, yet Bud Selig and friends continue to allow this "3 ring circus" to perform.... Then again, it appears we are being programmed to expect and accept mediocrity in almost every field.

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Tradition be damned. No one loses when they get the call right. It's that simple.

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Tradition be damned. No one loses when they get the call right. It's that simple.

Yep. The crazy thing is that the powers that be have already been screwing with tradition. Inter-league play, DH, All Star game now is played for home field advantage in the WS, instant replay on home runs, etc...

But as you say, no one loses when they get the call right. They can do that now, but Selig and Co. just sit on their collective asses and do nothing.

Edited by Sting

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Agreed. I wouldn't continue to eat at a high priced restaurant that screwed up 20% of the meals they served or continue to go to the same barber the messes up 2 or 3 haircuts a year, yet Bud Selig and friends continue to allow this "3 ring circus" to perform.... Then again, it appears we are being programmed to expect and accept mediocrity in almost every field.

So true and also so very sad!

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It seems to be a popular sentiment with fans. But what can a bunch of fans do about it? Really.

Not many people in MLB seem particularly inclined to rush into the expanded replay era. Perhaps least of all the players & their union, with whom expanded replay would have to be collectively bargained.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2010-06-20-poll-replay_N.htm

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I have not seen the ump evaluator for A+ ball in two years now. Mediocrity begins early and advances just like the players.

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Good teams still get screwed by umpires. It's just magnified when you happen to be a bad team that can't over come a bad call.

Yeah, good teams never, ever lose games due to bad calls.... :ponder:

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If I had to guess, umpires are better today than they were, and what has changed is that there is more exposure to umpiring mistakes with quality of video, how many games are broadcast, discussion on the interwebs, etc.

In any event, I have long argued MLB should adopt some form of replay. The NFL has had it for 20-odd years for pete's sake.

I know nobody raised it in this thread, but reading the argument that umpires' mistakes add human element to the game and therefore are acceptable is poison to my eyes.

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You could get the umpires to go along with having a guy in the booth if they added an extra umpire to do it. That would make the union happy. They could even rotate umps into the booth from the field so everyone gets a day in the shade. If you approach it correctly you can get anything done. The players should want the calls right and so should the league.

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Maybe it's just cause the Tigers aren't living up to expectations this year, but it really seems like we've had a LOT of bad calls this year. Perhaps we should start collecting them in this thread... hopefully I'll see so few that I'll feel better about it all.

Off the top of my head I can remember a couple of them:

5/28 - Strike out that was ruled a foul tip into the dirt (It was neither a foul tip nor in the dirt) -- lead to a 3 run rally. Tigers lost by three runs.

5/?? - Bases loaded late in game, Cabrera gets ball 4, instead ruled strike 3. I think the Tigers ended up losing by 2 runs.

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We should compile a thread of the bad calls against the Tigers this year and keep adding the new ones as they go. It would create a tangible account of the bad calls. Then you would really know if there were a lot of bad calls or if it just seems like there are a lot of bad calls.

The one where Texas had the bases loaded and the guy bunted off of his leg to take the lead stick in my head. Something happened in Chicago this last series too.

I know it seems like whining, but it would be interesting to see how often the Tigers get squeezed.

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I don't think it's the Tigers getting squeezed, I just think it's a combination of a faster game, HD tv with hundreds of replays, and social media. Umpires, referees, officials across sports just can't keep up, and you of course have the few egotistical *******s that want to make themselves more important in games than they need to be...

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Jason Stark reporting this morning that MLB is working on a NHL style system within 2 yrs with regular umpires in a central location watching all the games feeds - a la the NHL. Not clear what would be reviewable.

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I don't think it's the Tigers getting squeezed, I just think it's a combination of a faster game, HD tv with hundreds of replays, and social media. Umpires, referees, officials across sports just can't keep up, and you of course have the few egotistical *******s that want to make themselves more important in games than they need to be...

I don't disagree that we're seeing more "blown calls" because of better TV, replays, and easier ways for fans to report/comment on those plays. However, it does seem like the Tigers has received a larger number of blown calls in the past few weeks than typically seen. This is why I suggested keeping track of them. Am I just feeling this way because: A.) The Tigers aren't playing especially well so far this season? and B.) These calls seem to be happening at critical points in games we lose? Or are the Tigers really getting an uneven share of bad calls?

Please note: I am by NO means calling this a conspiracy. Even if it does come to pass that the Tigers are getting more than their fair share, I'm almost certainly going to caulk it up to bad luck rather than intentional targeting of the team. Like I said, I'm just trying to figure out if this is all in my head, or a real thing.

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Jason Stark reporting this morning that MLB is working on a NHL style system within 2 yrs with regular umpires in a central location watching all the games feeds - a la the NHL. Not clear what would be reviewable.

I think Balls and Strikes need to be off the table. As much as I yearn for a reliable, accurate, consistent method of calling balls and strikes, doing via replay would be impossible for two reasons:

First, it would be WAY to much of a delay. Even if they can over rule a call in 5 seconds, that still too long. It would slow down the game as every time a pitcher or hitter thought the call was wrong he would stall for a bit hoping for a buzz from the replay people. Also it could have big ramifications on situations were a runner is attempt to steal a base, but the catcher doesn't throw because it was called ball 4.

Second, if you are having a person still making the call, it does nothing to elevate the problems of inconsistent call from batter to batter. In fact it can make it worse. Now you have two people (instead of one), each with their own opinion, modifying and adjusting the strike zone. I think we're getting closer and closer to the point where cameras and computers can call the strike zone. It might be interesting to play a Spring Training game with the computer doing the strike zone and getting the pitchers and hitters opinions after the game.

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We should compile a thread of the bad calls against the Tigers this year and keep adding the new ones as they go. It would create a tangible account of the bad calls. Then you would really know if there were a lot of bad calls or if it just seems like there are a lot of bad calls.

ESPN did an analysis a year or two ago where they reviewed every MLB game over something like a two or 3 week period to evaluate how good a job the umpires did on plays at bases, fair/foul, catch/no catch and how well replay would rectify bad calls.

IIRC*, the basic findings were that umpires do a good job overall (not surprising), but something like 1 play per day across MLB would be overturned and another one would be close, but probably would be deemed too inconclusive to overturn the call on the field, whatever the call would be. The majority to vast majority of calls reviewed would be clearly upheld.

*My memory isn't the best, so take my memory for what it is worth.

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I think most MLB umpires actually do a pretty good job, but some of the obviously bad ones being fired or shown to be held accountable in some way would be nice. CB Bucknor, Angel Hernandez, Joe West, Balkin' Bob Davidson, both Welkies, all seem significantly worse than the average umpire who not coincidentally I don't know by name.

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I think Balls and Strikes need to be off the table. As much as I yearn for a reliable, accurate, consistent method of calling balls and strikes, doing via replay would be impossible for two reasons:

First, it would be WAY to much of a delay. Even if they can over rule a call in 5 seconds, that still too long. It would slow down the game as every time a pitcher or hitter thought the call was wrong he would stall for a bit hoping for a buzz from the replay people. Also it could have big ramifications on situations were a runner is attempt to steal a base, but the catcher doesn't throw because it was called ball 4.

Second, if you are having a person still making the call, it does nothing to elevate the problems of inconsistent call from batter to batter. In fact it can make it worse. Now you have two people (instead of one), each with their own opinion, modifying and adjusting the strike zone. I think we're getting closer and closer to the point where cameras and computers can call the strike zone. It might be interesting to play a Spring Training game with the computer doing the strike zone and getting the pitchers and hitters opinions after the game.

Agree that balls and strikes are only feasibly done by automation if the return is within a second, but I don't see why that is not attainable. In the case of balls and strikes, we would not be talking about a human review, but a direct computer call - possibly passed to the HPU in real time since he still needs to be there.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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I don't like instant replay unless it is truly instant. I have never been in favor of instant replay in baseball because of what happens in football. It seems like every time there is a really big play in football, they have to review the play and it takes away from the moment. I don't want every historic baseball play to be delayed like that. It's important that fans can celebrate a great moment as it happens.

An example of an "instant" replay would be an accurate computerized strike zone that would essentially replace the umpires. I'm pretty sure we have the technology to do that.

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I don't like instant replay unless it is truly instant. I have never been in favor of instant replay in baseball because of what happens in football. It seems like every time there is a really big play in football, they have to review the play and it takes away from the moment. I don't want every historic baseball play to be delayed like that. It's important that fans can celebrate a great moment as it happens.

An example of an "instant" replay would be an accurate computerized strike zone that would essentially replace the umpires. I'm pretty sure we have the technology to do that.

The more I think about it though, the more complex it gets for the home plate situation. In particular the ump still has to have the final call because of foul tips and checked swings - I really don't see a way to make it work without a really quantum shift in the play of the game unless the computer signal goes to the HPU instead of to the whole stadium.

Though maybe a big shift becomes acceptable if the umpiring stays bad enough.....

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The more I think about it though, the more complex it gets for the home plate situation. In particular the ump still has to have the final call because of foul tips and checked swings - I really don't see a way to make it work without a really quantum shift in the play of the game unless the computer signal goes to the HPU instead of to the whole stadium.

Though maybe a big shift becomes acceptable if the umpiring stays bad enough.....

I'm not really sure how it changes the play of the game. It might change the way fans perceive the game, but as long as it happens instantaneously, it shouldn't change game itself. I agree that the signal would have to go to the home plate umpire rather than the whole stadium.

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I think most replay could be done quite quickly, just have an extra umpire buzz the main umpire and let him know the call needs to be changed. Manager and player arguments after obviously bad calls almost always take far longer than this would. I also don't think the rare home run review has been a big deal.

Baseball is a slow paced game with endless stops and starts as it is, I don't think replay is going to break it's back. If it is maybe they should actually enforce pitch time limits and stop batters from stepping out to adjust their groin every other pitch.

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