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you know Fedorov was an outstanding two way player right

you being sarcastic or agreeing that he was? I was pointing out that I sure would like to see someone like him in the line-up. Granted it would be with a hefty price tag attached, but hey ... $20 Million ... anything is possible.

Edited by skyguy52

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Word out of Nashville is that Suter and the Preds are involved in talks and have made positive progress...Unless he's only looking at dollar signs, can't really see why he'd leave Nashville, which he supposedly loves...

A big consideration of his, besides the dough, has to be whether or not the Wings Organization is where he wants to be for awhile. Of course the Wings organization is heralded as one of THE best anywhere. Suter would have to be thinking, "do I have a better chance of getting my name on the Cup by staying in Nashville or moving to the motor city." I hope Holland can make that choice easier for him.

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not spoiled, just not willing to accept status quo. You're right, game 7 2009 was the last game they were a "contender'. Since then they've basically been resting on their laurels. Good but not good enough. Despite their success during regular season, it really means very little. In any given year 18-20 teams are good enough to MAKE the playoffs. Only 5-6 of them are serious contenders to win the cup, which is what its all about. Obviously the Wings have not been serious contenders and, to be honest, this month Holland can do some things to make them contenders again. No tweaking though, Please.

Take a moment to think about what you are saying. If the Wings aren't the favorite to win the cup then that's accepting the status quo? It's like complaining about the color of your Ferrari. Wait until you are driving a rust bucket, then you'll understand what status quo truly is.

The Wings have been a contender in each of the last 3 years. Maybe not as strong of a contender this year a in the past, but it's just not realistic to expect them to win the whole thing every year.

Remember when they lost to Edmonton? They won the cup a few years later.

Losing Lidstrom is going to hurt, but that's no reason to do something drastic. They might not even be a contender this year. Still no reason to panic. Stick to the plan. I hope they spend their money on the right guys, and if they can't get the right guys this year, stay in a position to get the right guys next year.

I hate basketball, but I do know who Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon are.

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haha. I really don't know what you're talking about. I'm not going to argue with you either. But if you satisfied with the likelihood 7th, 8th or 9th place conference finishes or just resting on past laurels and hopeful thinking going forward then that's your prerogative. What's happened in the past guy is not an indication for future success. Also I'm not suggesting they're going to win the whole slice of cheese EVERY YEAR. Is that what you think I'm saying? I do expect them to acknowledge the trend that's been taking place and do something about it. Thats what they will do this year with $20 million. I hope.

Edited by skyguy52

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t. Obviously the Wings have not been serious contenders and, to be honest, this month Holland can do some things to make them contenders again. No tweaking though, Please.

They have not been serious contenders for ...around 3 months now.

They went to Game 7 of the SCF in 2009. They lost in the conference semi's in 2010 - that's close to a top 5 result. They lost in Game 7 in the conference semi's in 2011 - that's a top 5 result. They were leading the NHL in points well into February at the All Star Break this season - that's a serious contender. Then they fell off the cliff. So the non-elite era (or blip) is around 100 days old at most. And they finished the regular season with as many or more points than both of this year's Stanley Cup finalists. Last year they got more regular season points than that year's Cup winner, Boston. In fact the only Stanley Cup winner the past 10 years to get more regular season points in their Cup winning year than the Wings was the Hawks in '10.

Edited by lordstanley

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I'm saying the trend over the past few years would indicate issues with their roster, the chemistry, whatever, pointing a need, going forward to address some issues. Past performance is relevant to a point, but given their dismal finish this year, I don't see them making a correction unless some pieces (more than a couple) are added.

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There's nowhere to go but down from back to back cup finals appearances.

I think it's comical that you assume it's easy to make some drastic changes and then make the finals. Teams can't even make drastic changes and make the playoffs.

2002: Champs

2003: #3 in points, swept in the first round

2004: Presidents Trophy, lost in 2nd round to 7 seed.

2005: no hockey

2006: Presidents Trophy, lost to 8 seed in 1st round.

2007: Tied #1 in points, lost to 5 seed in second round.

Good thing they didn't decide the status quo wasn't good enough after 2007.

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And you don't think significant changes are in order? I think THAT is comical my friend. I look forward to seeing what Holland does in the coming months and then we can talk about who's being comical.

Edited by skyguy52

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2007: Tied #1 in points, lost to 5 seed in second round.

Good thing they didn't decide the status quo wasn't good enough after 2007.

Agreed, but just a minor correction. They lost in the 3rd round in 2007. Leading Anaheim by a goal with a minute to go in Game 5, if they hadn't lost that game they would have been in the series driver's seat up 3-2 in games. And then Anaheim swept Ottawa. That year still sticks with me, I think they were good enough to win the Cup that year.

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What were the drastic changes after 07? Dallas Drake and replacing Schneider with Rafalski. Same head coach, same unmotivated players. Clearly drastic changes aren't needed to win a cup.

I would bet my house you were calling for big changes then too.

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What were the drastic changes after 07? Dallas Drake and replacing Schneider with Rafalski. Same head coach, same unmotivated players. Clearly drastic changes aren't needed to win a cup.

I would bet my house you were calling for big changes then too.

No I Didn't, but I'll take your house Thank you. In any case, significant changes ARE necessary now. I am calling for that. So are a lot of others. Its that simple. Beyond expressing holding to the same organizational approach as in the past, you haven't really said what might be necessary to reverse a trend that's been developing that goes counter to what we expect. Apparently you think a tweak is fine. I don't. Let's see where we're at July 1. Unmotivated players? Yes, at least one has developed over the course of last season. You know who it is. I hope that gets corrected also. We'll see.

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The problem is, it's difficult to make significant changes when you have limited talent in the minors, no decent draft picks and not a lot of trade worthy talent. I always laugh when everyone will say stuff along the lines of, "Franzen sucks!" but then they want us to trade him for a great young player. Its like, he sucks but everyone else must want him? The Wings don't have much choice but to change this season. Or hey, let's package Cleary, Filppula and Tatar and a draft pick for Rick Nash!

As I have said previously, the Wings "standing pat" has afforded them, with Lidstrom's retirement, 25 million or so under the salary cap, which to me is totally unbelievable. The problem is, just because you want a free agent, doesn't mean you'll get them. As this year has proven, all you have to do is make the playoffs and you're a contender. I agree with sagnam in that I trust Holland, Ilitch, Nill and company to do what needs to be done to keep the Wings competitive.

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And one more thing, not sure where you got that I claimed the Red Wings weren't much good in 07, 08, or 09. Never said that. What I am saying is the trend I'm seeing over the course of the last 3 years, particularly this last season (a blip some have called it) is cause for concern. See you in July or at training camp.:classic:

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No I Didn't, but I'll take your house Thank you. In any case, significant changes ARE necessary now. I am calling for that. So are a lot of others. Its that simple. Beyond expressing holding to the same organizational approach as in the past, you haven't really said what might be necessary to reverse a trend that's been developing that goes counter to what we expect. Apparently you think a tweak is fine. I don't. Let's see where we're at July 1. Unmotivated players? Yes, at least one has developed over the course of last season. You know who it is. I hope that gets corrected also. We'll see.

What trend? There is no trend. You are manufacturing one just support your delusional ideas. I just showed you what happened after their Cup in 02. They lost in the first round twice and one was a sweep. What about that trend? You know, the one that led up too another Cup win?

You are delusional. They aren't going to win it all every year. Oh wait, now I get it, you are talking about the trend of not winning the Cup every year.

It's funny that you keep alluding that you know someone is unmotivated. You don't know anything. You think someone is unmotivated. It's just as likely they had a bad year.

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The problem is, it's difficult to make significant changes when you have limited talent in the minors, no decent draft picks and not a lot of trade worthy talent. I always laugh when everyone will say stuff along the lines of, "Franzen sucks!" but then they want us to trade him for a great young player. Its like, he sucks but everyone else must want him? The Wings don't have much choice but to change this season. Or hey, let's package Cleary, Filppula and Tatar and a draft pick for Rick Nash!

As I have said previously, the Wings "standing pat" has afforded them, with Lidstrom's retirement, 25 million or so under the salary cap, which to me is totally unbelievable. The problem is, just because you want a free agent, doesn't mean you'll get them. As this year has proven, all you have to do is make the playoffs and you're a contender. I agree with sagnam in that I trust Holland, Ilitch, Nill and company to do what needs to be done to keep the Wings competitive.

I like that -- some trades for some new blood. As for the other, Lets see if Holland, Ilitch and Nill will come thru. Aggressive sounds good in print. Lets see if it's put into action.

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What trend? There is no trend. You are manufacturing one just support your delusional ideas. I just showed you what happened after their Cup in 02. They lost in the first round twice and one was a sweep. What about that trend? You know, the one that led up too another Cup win?

You are delusional. They aren't going to win it all every year. Oh wait, now I get it, you are talking about the trend of not winning the Cup every year.

It's funny that you keep alluding that you know someone is unmotivated. You don't know anything. You think someone is unmotivated. It's just as likely they had a bad year.

Past performance is not indicative of future success ... don't care what happened over the last 6 or 7 years or 10. With the core of guys they have right now, I seriously don't think it likely, the success they've had, and yes they've had some, will continue. What part of that don't you understand? Me delusional? I think not. Now You're sounding like someone who works in the front office.

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It's funny that you keep alluding that you know someone is unmotivated. You don't know anything. You think someone is unmotivated. It's just as likely they had a bad year.

You got it wrong. Not alluding to someone being unmotivated. I'm directly calling attention to Franzen's work ethic on a day to day basis. We can conjecture all month long about the reasons for this. However, there is an issue. Should we just give him a bye for having a bad year, as you say? Or should we look at the matter head on and ask questions as to whether or not signing him to a long term contract was in the best interests of everyone concerned? The Mule is a skilled and talented player. No reason for him to have a BAD year.

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I like that -- some trades for some new blood. As for the other, Lets see if Holland, Ilitch and Nill will come thru. Aggressive sounds good in print. Lets see if it's put into action.
Past performance is not indicative of future success ... don't care what happened over the last 6 or 7 years or 10. With the core of guys they have right now, I seriously don't think it likely, the success they've had, and yes they've had some, will continue. What part of that don't you understand? Me delusional? I think not. Now You're sounding like someone who works in the front office.
You got it wrong. Not alluding to someone being unmotivated. I'm directly calling attention to Franzen's work ethic on a day to day basis. We can conjecture all month long about the reasons for this. However, there is an issue. Should we just give him a bye for having a bad year, as you say? Or should we look at the matter head on and ask questions as to whether or not signing him to a long term contract was in the best interests of everyone concerned? The Mule is a skilled and talented player. No reason for him to have a BAD year.

I see you are still trolling, and still haven't learned how to multi-quote.

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funny, you're a smart one aren't ya. What's the matter don't like hearing the truth, or don't have any opinions of your own?

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funny, you're a smart one aren't ya. What's the matter don't like hearing the truth, or don't have any opinions of your own?

Quite.

Is there an option for not wanting to hear your version of the truth and having my own opinions?

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what are your opinions Walt? Lets hear 'em. and don't accuse me of trolling again. Fair enough? and doesn't matter if you don't like mine.

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what are your opinions Walt? Lets hear 'em. and don't accuse me of trolling again. Fair enough? and doesn't matter if you don't like mine.

Well, it is my opinion that unless you spend time with the team and players, it is foolhardy at best to pretend to know what a player's work ethic is based on the little bit of exposure you get watching games and reading MLive.

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is that ALL walt? Guess you work in the front office too?

I don't recall claiming that.

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