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RedRamage

In the second round of the 2012 Draft the Lions....

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Here's a thread for speculation and talk about what the Lions do in the second round. Right now they have the 22nd pick. But did you realize that only half of the 32 first round picks actually where original picks? Fully 16 picks were traded around in the first round. I suspect the 2nd round will be just as wild, if not more so. Already 6 picks are not with their original teams.

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I want Janoris Jenkins in the worst way but we would have to move up...

I'll say LB Zach Brown (want David but he will be gone IMO)

We'll find a CB in Rd 3 or trade back into Rd 2.

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I'd like to see

Cordy Glenn (if he falls)

Maybe a Peter Konz

Janoris Jenkins

Brandon Boykin

Bobby Wagner

Maybe even a George Illoka.

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Janoris Jenkins is supposed to be the hot name at the top of the 2nd right now...

I think to get him, Cordy Glenn, or Konz, you have to get to the top 5 or so of the 2nd.

Here's a wild-*** scenario: Would you trade our 2013 1st rounder and this year's 2nd rounder to get the Rams 1st pick of the 2nd, and the 13th pick in the 2nd? Would they do that trade?

Pick Cordy Glenn or Konz with the 1st pick, and then whoever is available of the other one, Jenkins, Zach Brown, Josh Robinson, Lamar Miller, Chris Polk, Mychal Kendricks, Vinny Curry, LaMichael James, Jon Martin, Stephen Hill (one of those guys would be there at 13...)?

If you don't get a CB in the 2nd, there's still Josh Norman in the 3rd, or trade a 5th rounder to the Cowboys for Mike Jenkins (they're trying to dump him right now per the rumor-mill)?

I would trade next year's 1st rounder for the Rams #1 2nd round pick as I think Konz and Glenn are 1st round talents, we should be picking very late next year anyways (I know... don't count chickens...); and we get those guys at a discounted price (salary-wise) and for an extra year. Plus... if we can talk the Rams into the #13 pick for our #22, it's close to a net-zero loss...

Thoughts?

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Here's a wild-*** scenario: Would you trade our 2013 1st rounder and this year's 2nd rounder to get the Rams 1st pick of the 2nd, and the 13th pick in the 2nd? Would they do that trade?

Emotionally this is really hard to do. I mean, giving up a first rounder for a second rounder? Just the sound of that makes it feel off and wrong. I think emotionally fans expect to see something much more proven than just a draft pick.

Having said that, logically, it might make sense. Assuming we make the playoffs again, we're looking at a pick of around the same location we're at this year. So we're essentially trading a 23rd for a 33rd pick... dropping 10 places. And we're getting their 13th for our 22nd, essentially moving up 9 places. It's about a wash looking at pure numbers.

The two sides questions of course are: Does the talent level that is available right now (ie, 1-13 picks of second round) warrant a move up like this? Could we reasonable expect who we're taking at 1 and 13 in round two to equal, talent-wise, what we're take at 22 in round two, and next year in the first round? I'm not a big enough scout type to know the answer.

And of course, question two is: Where will we draft in the first round next year? If we make it to the NFC Champ game or better, we'd be drafting 29, 30, 31, or 32... which is means it probably would be a good deal for us. But if we have a down year compared to 2011 and end up drafting 20th or sooner, then the trade looks much more favorable to the Rams.

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Emotionally this is really hard to do. I mean, giving up a first rounder for a second rounder? Just the sound of that makes it feel off and wrong. I think emotionally fans expect to see something much more proven than just a draft pick.

Having said that, logically, it might make sense...

...Where will we draft in the first round next year? If we make it to the NFC Champ game or better, we'd be drafting 29, 30, 31, or 32... which is means it probably would be a good deal for us. But if we have a down year compared to 2011 and end up drafting 20th or sooner, then the trade looks much more favorable to the Rams.

Yeah, it's complicated.

We'd be taking a risk that we don't regress next year, and that a player at #1 this year is roughly equivalent to a 20-ish to 30-ish player next year.

IMO: I think it's a risk worth taking. I think Glenn is a monster and roughly equal to a DeCastro. I would also be interested in taking a chance on Konz. I think O-Lineman, for whatever reason this year (reaches on DE's, WR's, etc...), got pushed down more than they should have. Which opens up the possibility of getting a higher level of talented player, really, someone that deserves a 1st round selection anyways...

The key to me, and probably why the Rams would shoot this down, is moving up from #22 to #13, guaranteeing that we get another player at the top of our list (or at least someone who would be higher than whatever choice we'd be left with at #22).

The "net-zero" loss is quite appealing...

But yeah, trading a next year's 1st for this year's 2nd is always "antethema"!!!

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IE:

Let's say we selected Konz and LaVonte David... worth it?

OR: Zach Brown and Josh Robinson... worth it?

Glenn and Lamar Miller or Vinny Curry... worth it?

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Trading a first and a second for a second isn't a smart thing to do, ever. Wait for your pick, or trade back. There is some depth to this draft.

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Trading a first and a second for a second isn't a smart thing to do, ever. Wait for your pick, or trade back. There is some depth to this draft.

He was saying trading a 1st and 2nd for 2 2nds in his idea. I really don't see how STL does it though as there is too little risk for us IMO. I think there is a better chance that we are picking lower than 23 next year than there is of us picking higher than 23 and thus for us to move up 9 spots for their other 2nd is a pipe dream IMO.

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He was saying trading a 1st and 2nd for 2 2nds in his idea.

Yeah, it's a 1st and a second for a second and a second...

I really don't see how STL does it though as there is too little risk for us IMO. I think there is a better chance that we are picking lower than 23 next year than there is of us picking higher than 23 and thus for us to move up 9 spots for their other 2nd is a pipe dream IMO.

They might for two reasons:

First, just like the idea of trade back a 1 for a 2 is emotionally hard (even if logically right), so would trade a 2 for a 1 be emotionally easy (even if logically not). As much as I'd hate to not have a first round next year, in the same way it would be exciting to have two first rounds next year.

Second, if St.L looks at the Lions and thinks we were more lucky than good and that we'll end up picking earlier than 23, then it's even more of a bonus to them. It's not too hard for me to find 8 or 9 losses in the Lions schedule is they get some unlucky bounces or have a couple of key injuries. If you knew for sure that the first rounder next year was a #15 pick... then this deal looks VERY favorable for the Rams.

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I don't like Robinson at all in the 2nd. Plenty of more talented CB's in the mix, and if the Lions do not like Jenkins, or if he isnt available, then I like taking Trumaine Johnson. Hosley, Dennard, or Fleming are intriguing options too. I just think Robinson is a reach and am concerned with his man coverage as well as his inability to make plays in run support. We know well enough that we need help in those two facets big time and the other guys listed are much more capable.

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Trading a first and a second for a second isn't a smart thing to do, ever. Wait for your pick, or trade back. There is some depth to this draft.

Well that's just silly to say IMO. You just have to make sure you are doing the trade for a player you have a 1st round grade on. There are players still available we could have taken at 23 and nobody would have blinked.

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Yeah, it's a 1st and a second for a second and a second...

They might for two reasons:

First, just like the idea of trade back a 1 for a 2 is emotionally hard (even if logically right), so would trade a 2 for a 1 be emotionally easy (even if logically not). As much as I'd hate to not have a first round next year, in the same way it would be exciting to have two first rounds next year.

Second, if St.L looks at the Lions and thinks we were more lucky than good and that we'll end up picking earlier than 23, then it's even more of a bonus to them. It's not too hard for me to find 8 or 9 losses in the Lions schedule is they get some unlucky bounces or have a couple of key injuries. If you knew for sure that the first rounder next year was a #15 pick... then this deal looks VERY favorable for the Rams.

You would never get this. A similar bounty landed the Saints what, the 28 pick last year(Ingram)? We might get 33 and their 6th or something at the most. A 2013 1st does not land us 33

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You would never get this. A similar bounty landed the Saints what, the 28 pick last year(Ingram)? We might get 33 and their 6th or something at the most.

Just making sure, do you know what the hypothetical trade proposal was?

We give our 1st in 2013 and our second this year (22nd in 2nd round)

Rams give their two seconds this year (1st and 13th in 2nd round)

I think it's actually relatively equal looking at pure numbers. The only question is where the Lions draft in the first round next year, and what talent is available right now vs. what might be available in next years draft.

A 2013 1st does not land us 33

Are you saying if the Lions offered up our first round pick in 2013, by itself, the Rams would not give us their pick in the second round (33rd over all) by itself? I'm a little confused by your reply, so just want to make sure I'm understanding.

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Just making sure, do you know what the hypothetical trade proposal was?

We give our 1st in 2013 and our second this year (22nd in 2nd round)

Rams give their two seconds this year (1st and 13th in 2nd round)

I think it's actually relatively equal looking at pure numbers. The only question is where the Lions draft in the first round next year, and what talent is available right now vs. what might be available in next years draft.

Are you saying if the Lions offered up our first round pick in 2013, by itself, the Rams would not give us their pick in the second round (33rd over all) by itself? I'm a little confused by your reply, so just want to make sure I'm understanding.

I'm aware of what the trade was. I think we could maybe get 33 and a 6th(first in the round) for those 2 picks based on value. Certainly not 33 and a 2nd by any means.

Yes that's what I was saying. You usually get one round different if you trade a next year pick, so our pick next year's first would land us a mid to late 2nd most likely.

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Hope they don't panic and give away other picks to move up...then they'll be weaker at special teams and have to sign UFA's and then they get no compensation picks next year ! Trust the scouts and stay patient !

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I expect a name that no one is talking about...like Titus Young last year.

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The reason trading future high picks is a bad idea is because every team is going to have multiple holes to fill every year. That is just the nature of the salary cap era. So while you might think you are just filling a hole now instead of later, you are really hurting your teams chances of filling weak spots in the future.

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Trading a first and a second for a second isn't a smart thing to do, ever. Wait for your pick, or trade back. There is some depth to this draft.

I agree with this. This is the point where this is the most depth in the draft. There isn't much of a difference between #35 and #55 this year, IMO. There's going to be a good player available at #54, so just sit back and wait. No need to trade an extra pick for someone.

Edit: Just re-read and saw the "trading a first and a second for a second" and I completely agree again. There's no reason to de-value a draft pick just because it can't be used until next year.

Edited by froggyvk

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