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With the 23rd Pick of the first round the Detroit Lions select T Riley Reiff

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I think I heard you on 97.1 today with that prediction.

EDIT: Just realized that read as sarcastic. I really heard someone propose that exact same trade on 97.1.

That was me, Mike from Canton.

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People are bitching because he's not a true Left Tackle. We may have drafted a RT which we have a definate need on Defense WAAAAAAAAY more than RT. A true LT is a definate need. Or Cornerback or another Safety. RT is wayyyyyyy down the list. That's why no one is totally estatic. At least, thats why I'm not estatic.

I heard mentioned on the radio this morning that Reap was the second highest rated LT in the draft (and the highest RT). I dunno how accurate that this, but if it is I would think he is able to play in the NFL at LT.

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I keep hearing about Reiff's arms, but arent they longer than Joe Thomas' and Jake Long's?

It's not the size... it's how you use it.

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I heard mentioned on the radio this morning that Reap was the second highest rated LT in the draft (and the highest RT). I dunno how accurate that this, but if it is I would think he is able to play in the NFL at LT.

The impression I'm getting is that he'll be the Lions' RT or maybe right guard, and then he'll be their LT the year after with Backus moving or waiting out another year with Backus at LT. Seems like a pretty good idea to me.

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Reiff has 33 1/4" arms, Long and Thomas have 33" arms. DeCastro has 32 3/8 " arms.

To be fair, though, what are their torso widths? Anyone know? I'd like to see wing span (finger tip to finger tip). IF Long or Thomas have two or three more inches in torso width they have an effectively longer reach even if their arms are a 1/4 inch shorter.

And speaking of 1/4 inches... do they really have to measured down to the quarter inch? Or even eighth of an inch? I mean 1/4 of an inch is the width of a small paper clip on the smaller end. Which means of course an 1/8 is half that distance. Does anyone really think teams would look at DeCastro and say: "Well, we were thinking of grabbing him, but he reach is only 32 and 1/4 inches. If only he could reach half the width of a small paper clip more... then he'd have taken him. But he can't, so we'll get a running back instead."

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Yeah, and Kyle Sleeth will be in the rotation for the Tigers. Are you high right now?

Sarcasm aside, I have to agree with MCS. I'll be shocked if Fox is ever a starter for more than 6 games in any one season.

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I like this pick. The Lions OL is extremely weak all the way through. We needed to begin the process of filling the holes. Reiff should be able to start right away. If it were me, I would try Gosder at RG and get Peterman off the field. Put Reiff at RT until Backus FINALLY retires or gets beat so bad by Jarod Allen that he decides to quit, in which case Reiff can go to LT.

Lets see how the rest of the draft shakes out, need to address the secondary and OL still.

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Listened to Ray Bentley this morning on the radio. He did a little break down of the guy. Said he was an excellent run blocker (something we desperately need!) but was a little susceptible to speed rush or stunts in pass blocking. Depending on how susceptible that might mean he's a RT rather than a LT. We'll have to see.

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Wonder if the Lions trade up to grab someone like David or Konz in the early 2nd.

No need to move up. They'll get a good player right where they are.

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From 2009: Sammy Lee Hill. Lydon Murtha has played a bit in Miami

From 2010: 3rd rounder Spievey is a starting safety, 7th rounder Willie Young has contributed quite a bit, they traded a 5th rounder for Corey Williams, they traded another 5th rounder and a player for Rob Simms, and they traded a 6th and 7th for Chris Houston.

From 2011: They traded a 6th round pick for Lawerence Jackson, who has contributed quite a bit as well.

That's not bad. Sure they haven't hit any homeruns in the later rounds, but considering that they haven't had many 3-5 picks in Meyhew's career he's done OK. In 2011 they only had 2 picks after the 2nd round (5,7), in 2010 they only had 4 (3,5,7,7), and 2009 they had a ton (3,3,4,6,7,7,7). That's 3-3's, 1-4, 2-5's, 1-6, and 7-7's in 3 years.

In my opinion, he's hit on 2 for sure (Hill and Spievey), and probably Young as well. His trades have been great value too. Simms, Houston, Williams, and Jackson are all solid.

I agree that Mayhew has dealt picks for good players. I applauded each of those trades at the time. And that this means he's had fewer picks to work with in rounds 3 and beyond.

However, I don't think that the results of those draft picks indicate something good about Mayhew. Hill, Speivey, and Young made the roster. The first two get considerable playing time. But none of these players are in the top two-thirds of starters at their position. I think you're leaving out Levy -- or am I wrong about who picked him? He's the best of this group, but still not quite a top two-thirds player.

The trades using 3-7 round picks were astute. The players they selected with 3-7 round picks have not been very good. Excellent GMs do better. The sample size is still small, but Mayhew needs to do better here or the Lions won't have the talent base to be serious contenders.

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You don't think what Young brings to the table was good value for the 7th round? I also think that Hill has developed pretty nicely as a run-stopping oriented DT from the 4th round who is probably still learning the position and developing. I still like those picks a lot.

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I agree that Mayhew has dealt picks for good players. I applauded each of those trades at the time. And that this means he's had fewer picks to work with in rounds 3 and beyond.

However, I don't think that the results of those draft picks indicate something good about Mayhew. Hill, Speivey, and Young made the roster. The first two get considerable playing time. But none of these players are in the top two-thirds of starters at their position. I think you're leaving out Levy -- or am I wrong about who picked him? He's the best of this group, but still not quite a top two-thirds player.

The trades using 3-7 round picks were astute. The players they selected with 3-7 round picks have not been very good. Excellent GMs do better. The sample size is still small, but Mayhew needs to do better here or the Lions won't have the talent base to be serious contenders.

I left Levy off because you already mentioned him.

I didn't look at every other team, can you give examples of other teams who have done better over the last 3 years? I don't think it's as common as you think to pull starters from the late rounds, especially top starters.

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I left Levy off because you already mentioned him.

I didn't look at every other team, can you give examples of other teams who have done better over the last 3 years? I don't think it's as common as you think to pull starters from the late rounds, especially top starters.

You may be right. But it's my impression that those considered excellent GMs do this pretty regularly. I don't know any team but the Lions well enough to systematically evaluate my claim. But I can think of players I'd consider strong starters (i.e., clearly better than Hill or Spievey) who I believe came from recent rounds 3-7 (or were undrafted).

Thinking my way around the Packers offensive lineup, I come up with the following in this category (please correct me if I'm wrong):

Josh Sitton-OG; Marshall Newhouse, TJ Lang - OT

Jermichael Finley-TE; James Jones - WR

Mason Crosby - K

Matt Flynn - QB (not a starter, but appears to be viewed as having 'starters talent')

Note that I'm not claiming that all NFL GMs come up with more good players than Mayhew has (so far, in a limited sample) in rounds 3-7. I'm saying that the ones who are considered very good GMs do this. Not that it's common; "very good" is not common. This aspect of the draft is an important part of evaluating GMs in a league with a serious salary cap. And it will be especially critical on a team that may soon have three players near the top of the salary tables, leaving little money to pay up for talent in free agency.

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You don't think what Young brings to the table was good value for the 7th round? I also think that Hill has developed pretty nicely as a run-stopping oriented DT from the 4th round who is probably still learning the position and developing. I still like those picks a lot.

They are fine picks. Levy was a good value too. However, I'm looking at the overall record, not cherry-picking the best of the lot. I think that's the best way to evaluate this issue.

However, if you compare 'best of the lot' then Mayhew doesn't look good either, in comparison with GMs who are recognized to be very good. There are quite a few players out there who are stars or close to it that come from rounds 3 and beyond. The Lions have no one remotely in this class from the three Mayhew drafts.

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You may be right. But it's my impression that those considered excellent GMs do this pretty regularly. I don't know any team but the Lions well enough to systematically evaluate my claim. But I can think of players I'd consider strong starters (i.e., clearly better than Hill or Spievey) who I believe came from recent rounds 3-7 (or were undrafted).

Thinking my way around the Packers offensive lineup, I come up with the following in this category (please correct me if I'm wrong):

Josh Sitton-OG; Marshall Newhouse, TJ Lang - OT

Jermichael Finley-TE; James Jones - WR

Mason Crosby - K

Matt Flynn - QB (not a starter, but appears to be viewed as having 'starters talent')

Note that I'm not claiming that all NFL GMs come up with more good players than Mayhew has (so far, in a limited sample) in rounds 3-7. I'm saying that the ones who are considered very good GMs do this. Not that it's common; "very good" is not common. This aspect of the draft is an important part of evaluating GMs in a league with a serious salary cap. And it will be especially critical on a team that may soon have three players near the top of the salary tables, leaving little money to pay up for talent in free agency.

Sitton, Finley, Jones, Crosby and Flynn were taken outside the 3 year window. I wouldn't consider Newhouse, Jones, or Flynn in the top 2/3rd of their position.

Also, the Packers are one of the few teams who are known for building entirely through the draft. They may be the gold standard, but that doesn't mean everyone else is not good.

Maybe look at Baltimore, Newsome is a good GM who mixes draft and FA. Maybe Kevin Colbert too.

Edited by sagnam

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They are fine picks. Levy was a good value too. However, I'm looking at the overall record, not cherry-picking the best of the lot. I think that's the best way to evaluate this issue.

However, if you compare 'best of the lot' then Mayhew doesn't look good either, in comparison with GMs who are recognized to be very good. There are quite a few players out there who are stars or close to it that come from rounds 3 and beyond. The Lions have no one remotely in this class from the three Mayhew drafts.

Which guy from the Packers players you listed would you consider a "star?" I agree that there are solid players in that list, but "star," I don't see it.

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But we'll see how good Mayhew really is when we see how the picks in rounds 3 and later turn out from last year and this year. If some of these guys don't turn out to be average NFL starters or better, he's not doing what the great GMs do. In his first three drafts he's only drafted one guy after round 2 who arguably fits this description -- Levy. It's a small sample, and players have been injured, and they've traded a lot of those picks -- but that's not a good record. Especially with two guys soaking up so much payroll (and Suh to follow), the Lions have to get a lot more out of those rounds if they're going to have enough talent to compete.

Wow, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

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They are fine picks. Levy was a good value too. However, I'm looking at the overall record, not cherry-picking the best of the lot. I think that's the best way to evaluate this issue.

However, if you compare 'best of the lot' then Mayhew doesn't look good either, in comparison with GMs who are recognized to be very good. There are quite a few players out there who are stars or close to it that come from rounds 3 and beyond. The Lions have no one remotely in this class from the three Mayhew drafts.

2008

1 17 Cherilus, Gosder (from Min through KC) T Boston College

2 45 Dizon, Jordon LB Colorado

3a. 64 Smith, Kevin(from Mia) RB Central Florida

3b. 87 Fluellen, Andre(from Cle) DT Florida State

3c. 92 Avril, Cliff(from Dal) DE Purdue

5a. 136 Moore, Kenneth(from Mia through KC) WR/PR Wake Forest

5b. 146 Felton, Jerome(from NO) FB Furman

7a. 216 Cohen, Landon DT Ohio

7b. 218 Campbell, Caleb(from NO) LB Army

2009

1a. 1 Stafford, Matthew QB Georgia

1b. 20 Pettigrew, Brandon (from Dal) TE Oklahoma State

2. 33 Delmas, Louis S Western Michigan

3a. 65 Choice to NYJ

3b. 76 Levy, DeAndre (from NO thru NYJ) LB Wisconsin

3c. 82 Williams, Derrick (from Dal) WR Penn State

4a. 101 Choice to Dal

4b. 115 Hill, Sammie (from Was thru NYJ) DT Stillman

5. 137 Choice to Bal thru Sea, Phi and NE

6a. 174 Choice to Den

6b. 192 Brown, Aaron (from Dal) RB Texas Christian

7a. 210 Choice to Atl thru Dal

7b. 228 Murtha, Lydon T Nebraska

7c. 235 Follett, Zack LB California

7d. 255 Gronkowski, Dan TE Maryland

2010

1a. 2 Suh, Ndamukong DT Nebraska

1b. 30 Best, Jahvid (from Min) RB California

2. 34 Choice to Min

3. 66 Spievey, Amari CB Iowa

4a. 100 Choice to Min

4b. 128 Fox, Jason (from Min) T Miami

5a. 133 Choice to Sea

5b. 146 Choice to Cle (from Den)

6. 171 Choice to Atl

7a. 209 Choice to Buf

7b. 213 Young, Willie (from Sea) DE North Carolina State

7c. 214 Choice to Min (from Cle)

7d. 220 Choice to Phi

7e. 255 Toone, Tim WR Weber St.

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The only players that have failed to really help the team in the 3rd round on were Derrick Williams, Jason Fox and Tim Toone.

Aaron Brown couldn't stick on the roster, but he contributed in 2009. Gronk became Alphonso Smith.

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LOL EXACTLY what I was coming here to say.

This is a FANTASTIC pick a locks down the left side for years. Mayhew nails it once again. Love this guy.

I thought it was a great pick to. We needed to get younger on the O-line and we did, he could probably come in and start at RT right away. But the whole thing is for him to take over for Backus in a year or two. Helps the run blocking as well. I like the pick. Look forward to seeing him play.

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The only players that have failed to really help the team in the 3rd round on were Derrick Williams' date=' Jason Fox and Tim Toone.

Aaron Brown couldn't stick on the roster, but he contributed in 2009. Gronk became Alphonso Smith.[/quote']

Derrick Williams is the worst pick Mayhew has made so far. As for Jason Fox, he has been injured and has never really been healthy enough to even get a chance.

And Toone was the last pick in the draft. I'm not getting angry over the last pick not contributing. But like you said, besides those 3 players every pick has made an impact on the team.

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Sitton, Finley, Jones, Crosby and Flynn were taken outside the 3 year window.

Perhaps so. I didn't research this. As above, I believe they are recent picks, after the first two rounds. How far back were they? If they were four years back, then I think my point is still pretty well made. Mayhew would have to have an incredibly good draft (after round 2) this year to match the past four years of GB picks.

I wouldn't consider Newhouse, Jones, or Flynn in the top 2/3rd of their position.

Maybe not. It's hard to evaluate linemen, and Flynn was a back-up. But they are important players on a championship-level team. In Flynn's case, not that important, but the free agency market suggests he might be close to the top 2/3 at his position, which is the most important in football. That makes him a very successful late pick. If Rogers had gone down for a long time, the Packers probably wouldn't have folded.

Also, the Packers are one of the few teams who are known for building entirely through the draft. They may be the gold standard, but that doesn't mean everyone else is not good.

As I've said several times, it's the ones that are very good that I'm comparing Mayhew with. In no way does this mean that he's "not good" if he doesn't meet the standard of -- say -- the top five in the league. "Very good" is quite a bit better than "good." In my view his trades and his picks in round 1 and 2 make Mayhew "good". The question is if he's better than this. In my view he will need to do very well with late picks or the team is going to have trouble getting to the next level. They have so much money tied up in elite players that they need strong value from cheap players.

Maybe look at Baltimore, Newsome is a good GM who mixes draft and FA. Maybe Kevin Colbert too.

The Giants are another. I picked Green Bay only because I know their roster better than I do most teams, and they clearly fit the "very good" GM category.

I'm not trying to do a systematic study. I think I was asked to give an example so I did. That was interesting, at least to me. I knew GB had gotten good value with later picks in recent years. But just focusing on the offensive side, the value they got is more impressive when I went through the team in detail. And I may have missed a player or two, as I don't have an encyclopedic memory of the Packers drafts. Just that I know them better than any team but the Lions, going back to the early 60s.

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Which guy from the Packers players you listed would you consider a "star?" I agree that there are solid players in that list, but "star," I don't see it.

Note that I didn't say any of those GB players was a star. I was trying to list those who were more than marginal starters. But when I look at that list, I'd say Finley is "close to it". It's a very strong list, even if there are no all-pro quality players. The Lions have nothing remotely like this from picks 3-7.

My actual point was that there are "stars or close to it" on some teams -- I didn't specify Green Bay -- that originated in rounds 3-7. I imagine you agree with this?

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Wow' date=' you really have no idea what you are talking about.[/quote']

That's a compelling argument, backed up with some real evidence. Not to mention a fine way to continue a thoughtful discussion.

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The only players that have failed to really help the team in the 3rd round on were Derrick Williams' date=' Jason Fox and Tim Toone.

Aaron Brown couldn't stick on the roster, but he contributed in 2009. Gronk became Alphonso Smith.[/quote']

"Help the team" is not the standard I'd apply to determine if a GM was doing a very good job of drafting in rounds 3-7. Especially not when the team in question was so bad in 2009 and 2010. It didn't take much to help that team. These are the standards of a losing team. Better than the Millen years, yes. But that's the punchline to a joke, not a serious way to evaluate an NFL GM.

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