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lordstanley

04/20/12. WCQF Game 5. Wings @ Predators 8:00pm ET, CNBC, FSND, CBC, 97.1

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What did he say?

Basically he said the stark reality is that the Red Wings had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs this year. Seemed to imply their present roster is not deep enough to survive early playoff departure. That was my read anyway.

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What did he say?

I'll try to get a transcript. Basically, that the Wings weren't close in this series, that they needed a roster with more depth and better forwards, and that it should be obvious after two 2nd round knockouts and a 1st round knockout that the team is going in the wrong direction. All true. Some thought it could be seen as a knock against Holland.

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Basically he said the stark reality is that the Red Wings had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs this year. Seemed to imply their present roster is not deep enough to survive early playoff departure. That was my read anyway.

I don't think he said they had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs this year. But rather, with the direction the Wings are going, they'll soon be a team that has to fight and claw their way into the playoffs and that that's unacceptable.

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I don't think he said they had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs this year. But rather, with the direction the Wings are going, they'll soon be a team that has to fight and claw their way into the playoffs and that that's unacceptable.

On second thought you may be more accurate, although I'd like to hear the transcript again. I took it a little differently than you.

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I don't really agree with Babcock that the defense was "fine" based on the number of shots they gave up. But I do think he's right about the depth. The third and fourth lines provided nothing this year but yet there was no one waiting in the wings to replace any of them. A sniper would be great, but it seems like in the playoffs the big goals come from the 3rd and 4th liners. Miller had some flashes this season, but Abdelkader, Helm, Cleary etc were all a huge disappointment this season.

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I'm not grouping Helm into the Cleary bunch. Helm is never going to be a big scorer. He is just a better version of Kris Draper and while Draper had some nice seasons, Helm offers more. He will be fine. The rest of the 3rd/4th line guys need to be much better.

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"I'd be shocked if he (Lidstrom) retires," Babcock said. "But I've been shocked before."

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I'm not grouping Helm into the Cleary bunch. Helm is never going to be a big scorer. He is just a better version of Kris Draper and while Draper had some nice seasons, Helm offers more. He will be fine. The rest of the 3rd/4th line guys need to be much better.

I agree, Helm isn't like the others in that he has actual skills and talent, not just a physical guy or someone with a good work ethic. I don't think he produces enough for the talent that he has. I don't think he's a first line 50 goal scorer, but I think with his speed and stick handling skills, 20 goals isn't expecting too much. He's one of the few guys who is actually still young enough to see improvements, though, so I'm hopeful.

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Helm is an important 3rd or 4th liner going forward. But I hope Holland et al don't take the attitude this off-season that the lack of depth that was exposed in the playoffs will be solved by the return of Helm and Eaves to start the year and banged-up players like Cleary and Datsyuk getting back to normal health. Because I'd argue the Wings didn't have an inordinate amount of injuries this season. True, that was a rough patch injury-wise for a few weeks after the All-Star Break, but you could say that they were remarkably injury-free prior to then. And going into the playoffs, a player like Helm being out plus a couple of others getting back up to speed is pretty much par for the course around the league (Toews missed action in Chicago, Daniel Sedin was out of the first 3 games of his series, Gill couldn't play against the Wings). Going forward, the Wings can expect to face as many injury issues during their regular season and playoffs as they did this year, especially with a bunch of vets aged 30 or over.

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Helm is an important 3rd or 4th liner going forward. But I hope Holland et al don't take the attitude this off-season that the lack of depth that was exposed in the playoffs will be solved by the return of Helm and Eaves to start the year and banged-up players like Cleary and Datsyuk getting back to normal health. Because I'd argue the Wings didn't have an inordinate amount of injuries this season. True, that was a rough patch injury-wise for a few weeks after the All-Star Break, but you could say that they were remarkably injury-free prior to then. And going into the playoffs, a player like Helm being out plus a couple of others getting back up to speed is pretty much par for the course around the league (Toews missed action in Chicago, Daniel Sedin was out of the first 3 games of his series, Gill couldn't play against the Wings). Going forward, the Wings can expect to face as many injury issues during their regular season and playoffs as they did this year, especially with a bunch of vets aged 30 or over.

I'll believe it when I see it, but reports from a number of sources, including both Babcock and Holland, indicate big changes are being considered by way of free agency. In other words a major rebuild may well be coming.

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I'd like to see them give loooooooooong looks to Joakim Andersson and Riley Sheahan next fall...they'd add a couple of big bodies to the 3rd/4th lines. Wouldn't be adverse to bringing in Olli Jokinen for the same reason...bigger body and he can still score.

Be really interested to see how hard they go after Justin Schultz....not a big kid, but skates real well and can really move the puck.

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Helm is an important 3rd or 4th liner going forward. But I hope Holland et al don't take the attitude this off-season that the lack of depth that was exposed in the playoffs will be solved by the return of Helm and Eaves to start the year and banged-up players like Cleary and Datsyuk getting back to normal health. Because I'd argue the Wings didn't have an inordinate amount of injuries this season. True, that was a rough patch injury-wise for a few weeks after the All-Star Break, but you could say that they were remarkably injury-free prior to then. And going into the playoffs, a player like Helm being out plus a couple of others getting back up to speed is pretty much par for the course around the league (Toews missed action in Chicago, Daniel Sedin was out of the first 3 games of his series, Gill couldn't play against the Wings). Going forward, the Wings can expect to face as many injury issues during their regular season and playoffs as they did this year, especially with a bunch of vets aged 30 or over.

Injuries Schminjuries The Wings were beaten to almost every loose puck in that series. They outplayed Nashville for stretches but those stretches did not produced because they weren't charging the net, they were not creating havoc because Nashville pushed them around. I agree with you - everyone has injuries in April. They looked hesitant, skittish, lethargic and old and their defensive lapses were massive ones. As much as they need new size and new speed and new hunger - they need a face off master too.

Edited by Motor City Sonics

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I think they have decent 3rd and 4th liners, the problem is they're playing on the top 2 lines. Cleary and Bertuzzi are decent 3rd line players, not first liners. In past years, we had 1st and 2nd liners playing on the 3rd and 4th lines. Adding a top 6 forward would help that.

I don't think you can blame the injuries for the loss, but I don't think you can completely discount it either. I think it's pretty evident Datsyuk, Franzen, Lidstrom, Cleary and probably Howard were not 100%. Would we have beaten the Preds had everyone been 100%? Hard to say. But if Rinne, Weber, Fisher, Kostitsyn and Gaustad were all playing hurt, they might not have looked as good. But the Wings lost, but I don't think they're a total lost cause. I think Franzen will bounce back and with a few additions, they'll still be a playoff team. Once you get in, anything can happen. There are a lot of good teams with all right elements who are sitting home right now.

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Watching the Florida/NJ game and watching our old buddy Mikael Samuelsson. Ken Holland's ideal free agent...old, Swedish, former Wing and cheap.

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