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2012 Offseason thread

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Sean Yuille was surmising a Lions-Jets trade: we give them a RT, we get secondary help.

He was thinking Cherilus or Hilliard.

I highly doubt we trade Cherilus. But Hilliard could be a possibility if the Lions are good enough with Reiff and Fox, and possibly Scott if he gets back healthy. I think they'd have to like some interior prospects as well.

The questions are: could we get anything decent back from the Jets, and do they have anything decent to offer?

I saw they had some late-round safeties in this past draft, but don't know anything about them to say "Yeah, let's do that".

What do you guys think... Trade Hilliard for secondary help/ depth?

As long as it's understood that the Lions will be getting a Hilliard level defensive back.

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As long as it's understood that the Lions will be getting a Hilliard level defensive back.

I would be happy relying on Reiff & Fox and just getting back someone with upside.

Also, just thought of something: We're going to have D-Line depth as well: with the most marketable/ expendable player being Fluellen. He's probably the D-Line version of Hilliard. I know Fairley should lose a couple games to suspension... but would Fluellen garner some trade interest; and a secondary prospect coming back that would provide more value/ depth to us than holding onto Fluellen...?

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I'll give 'em Gosdar for Kyle Wilson.

I have to say that as much as I wanted Berry cut, I'd revisit signing him after the 3 games if he has shown any signs of getting it together.

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I'll give 'em Gosdar for Kyle Wilson.

I have to say that as much as I wanted Berry cut, I'd revisit signing him after the 3 games if he has shown any signs of getting it together.

I don't know if the Jets would be interested in moving on from Wilson already.

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I don't know if the Jets would be interested in moving on from Wilson already.

Its quite possible they wouldn't, but he's a bit of a luxury and their OT situation is killing them. We aren't looking to move on from Cherilus either.

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Maybe we can throw in Alphonso Smith lol. Would love to manage a trade for Wilson

As far as not looking at moving away from Goz, I am not so sure. We are going to have to resign him and I don't know if we can give him market value. Is he worth a franchise tag? No.

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Maybe we can throw in Alphonso Smith lol. Would love to manage a trade for Wilson

As far as not looking at moving away from Goz' date=' I am not so sure. We are going to have to resign him and I don't know if we can give him market value. Is he worth a franchise tag? No.[/quote']

I don't think the Lions will want to move on from Cherilus either.

I was thinking more like backup for backups or unprovens.

If the Jets are down on Wilson and up on Hilliard, they might do that trade. If they could be talked into Alphonso, maybe that increases the chances of that trade, and also gets us back Safety depth.

Smith & Hilliard for Wilson, Marcus Lott and Antonio Allen (late-round safeties drafted this year...). I don't know if these safeties are any good; but maybe they get us some critical secondary depth...?

And if Kyle Wilson is an upgrade from Alphonso; I think we can get by with Bentley/ Lacey/ Wilson as our #2 thru Dime CB's...

Yeah/ Nay?

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I don't think the Lions will want to move on from Cherilus either.

I was thinking more like backup for backups or unprovens.

If the Jets are down on Wilson and up on Hilliard, they might do that trade. If they could be talked into Alphonso, maybe that increases the chances of that trade, and also gets us back Safety depth.

Smith & Hilliard for Wilson, Marcus Lott and Antonio Allen (late-round safeties drafted this year...). I don't know if these safeties are any good; but maybe they get us some critical secondary depth...?

And if Kyle Wilson is an upgrade from Alphonso; I think we can get by with Bentley/ Lacey/ Wilson as our #2 thru Dime CB's...

Yeah/ Nay?

Smith and Hilliard for Wilson+. I think you are undervaluing Wilson.

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Maybe we can throw in Alphonso Smith lol. Would love to manage a trade for Wilson

As far as not looking at moving away from Goz' date=' I am not so sure. We are going to have to resign him and I don't know if we can give him market value. Is he worth a franchise tag? No.[/quote']

Sure, all I'm saying is we aren't trying to give him away at this moment. If we don't get an offer such as Wilson or similar value, we'll keep him through the year.

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With no sign of Jahvid Best ever returning, when do the Lions decide it's time to move on? I think it was foolish of them to not really address the position in the offseason, especially looking at Smith's durability and the fact that Leshoure has still never even suited up for any kind of game. This is probably one of the only instances during Mayhew's tenure where I have questioned what the hell he was thinking. Obviously offense is the Lions strength and maybe Leshoure and Smith can kind of compliment eachother and split carries to remain healthy, but why continue to act like Best will ever play again?

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I think they've probably already decided to move on. If they get something from Best, its a bonus at this point.

As for addressing the position, it was damned if you do, damned if you don't. It was either, you just spent 2 high picks on RBs, stop wasting them, every other team finds RBs in the 7th round! Or it was, you didn't address the RB position with all the question marks you have at the position!?! WHAT?

I'd have liked Ryan Grant, but I"m ok with what we have for now. We weren't getting any studs this offseason.

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There's bound to be running backs that are released during cuts lions should snag up a decent player.

Edited by MAROTH4MVP

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Schefter saying the Lions should offer a 2nd round pick and Leshoure for MJD. Ehh, I dont know if I would like this trade, hard to decide without ever seeing Leshoure play in a Lions uniform. But wow imagine how good the offense would be for a couple seasons with MJD.

ESPN's Schefter: 2nd-round pick and Lions' Leshoure could get Jones-Drew | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

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PS: Bring in Myron Rolle for a look-see...

Although... why isn't he getting any traction in the NFL? I though he had speed-size-talent...?

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Also...

I still say Fluellen and Hilliard will have value around the league for someone needing a trench starter or depth. There has to be someone out there willing to part with a young secondary talent in exchange for an experienced lineman.

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Shanahan says "3rd rounder with great speed":

Washington Redskins CB Kevin Barnes traded to Detriot Lions - ESPN

Anyone know exactly what that means?

Cruzer? Can you dig up combine results from 2009?

PS: He was also the CB that hit Jahvid Best and made him throw up on the field... just looked at the video... also... never mind on the 40-speed.

From Wikipedia: In the 2009 NFL Draft, Barnes was selected by the Washington Redskins in the third round as the 80th overall pick. He had participated in the 2009 NFL Combine, where he impressed scouts by scoring highly among cornerbacks in the speed and agility tests. Barnes also scored the highest grade at the combine on the Wonderlic intelligence test with a 41 out of 50, which far exceeded the average prospect's grade of 19. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.52 seconds, which was 0.06 seconds slower than the fastest time record by a cornerback. His vertical jump of 38.5 inches was the sixth-best recorded by a cornerback. Maryland coaches reportedly told Redskins head coach Jim Zorn that Barnes was "maybe the only guy in that league who could run with [wide receiver Darrius] Heyward-Bey," who recorded the fastest 40-yard dash time at the combine and was selected seventh overall in the draft.

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Barnes is worth a shot, though like most Lions defenders, I guess he is pretty undisciplined. Bad tackler that goes for the knockout hit type. Good speed, bad positioning. Hopefully we can get good use out of him.

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From Wikipedia: In the 2009 NFL Draft, Barnes was selected by the Washington Redskins in the third round as the 80th overall pick. He had participated in the 2009 NFL Combine, where he impressed scouts by scoring highly among cornerbacks in the speed and agility tests. Barnes also scored the highest grade at the combine on the Wonderlic intelligence test with a 41 out of 50, which far exceeded the average prospect's grade of 19. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.52 seconds, which was 0.06 seconds slower than the fastest time record by a cornerback. His vertical jump of 38.5 inches was the sixth-best recorded by a cornerback. Maryland coaches reportedly told Redskins head coach Jim Zorn that Barnes was "maybe the only guy in that league who could run with [wide receiver Darrius] Heyward-Bey," who recorded the fastest 40-yard dash time at the combine and was selected seventh overall in the draft.

This guy sounds amazing... he's got some impressive combine stats. But...

(from the linked ESPN story:)

"Here's a football team that needs a corner," Washington coach Mike Shanahan said. "Here's a third-round draft pick that's got some great speed. If he makes the team, we get something in return and they get a good football player."

The Redskins were preparing to cut Barnes had they not found a trading partner. He was behind starters DeAngelo Hall and Josh Wilson on the depth chart and was a contender for playing time as a nickel back during training camp.

The 2009 third-round selection played in 29 games with three starts over three seasons with Washington. He has three career interceptions.

So why would a team be looking to cut someone who is supposed to be really smart, very fact, and highly agile? Might this just be a case of a guy who has impressive practices and great combine stats, but doesn't actually have a good head for the game? I'm trying not to look a gift horse in the mouth. We need help in the secondary for sure, and this guy does look impressive. But I feel like we're missing part of the story here. I guy with that impressive of a combine shouldn't be on the verge of getting cut in his third year.

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And therein lies the crux of the matter...

What is wrong with this guy?

Hopefully it's some kind of scheme mismatch. And Gunther can make him fit with the Lions, in a positive way.

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Looking at what Nastradamus posted before my reply that I didn't see initially:

Barnes is worth a shot, though like most Lions defenders, I guess he is pretty undisciplined. Bad tackler that goes for the knockout hit type. Good speed, bad positioning. Hopefully we can get good use out of him.

If this is true, then I'm worried. I think way too many of our defenders are like this and it allows for too many big plays. I don't see our coaching staff as being able to 'fix' this type of player. Whether they are encouraging this type of play or just not able to discourage/re-teach effective I don't know. But either way I don't see them stopping our defenders from playing like this. I'm not a huge fan of this style.

I suppose I'm advocating more of a "bend, but don't break" defense that allows small gains but tries to eliminate the big play. And that can be bad too. We'll see what the regular season produces. I get the feeling that Bentley is losing fair in the coaches eyes, and so I think Barnes has a decent shot at making the team. If nothing else, his speed will hopefully help on special teams.

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