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Deleterious

2012 NBA Draft

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I didn't realize you were asking for a guarantee. I certain I never made any kind of guarantee. Henson is more likely to be league average (not a guarantee) and more likely to get there sooner than Drummond. Drummond is a major project with a ton of potential. I don't think that is a particularly controversial statement nor do I think it is controversial to state that Henson was a better basketball player last year than Drummond was.

It is also close to 100% that above average NBA rebounders had above average rebounding numbers in college and high school (assuming they played). I guess this depends on what you mean by average and such, but even Drummond, who has terrible rebounding numbers for an NBA lottery pick at center, had above average rebounding numbers compared to the rest of college basketball. Feel free to bring up counter examples. That doesn't imply that rebounding is the same as height or wing span though. You actually can't teach those things. You can teach rebounding and passing and shot blocking, it's just very hard to do (because things like height and wing span help shot blockers and rebounders).

Put it another way, most guys that are 7' 270 lbs and can jump a mile in the air (or whatever Drummond's vertical is) don't need to be taught how to rebound, because when you are 7' 270 lbs rebounding is much, much easier and you've been doing it your entire basketball career.

We can agree to disagree on being able to really teach a pedestrian shot blocking big to be a prolific one. Feel free to bring up examples that make you think otherwise.

And you can't teach court vision, that is a gift. Or else, Lindsay Hunter would have been a franshise PG for us and I can think of dozens of other examples very similar to him.

Henson was helped by the fact he was on a better team last year. Trade him places with Drummond and I think the results would would be shocking. Henson played with the best passing PG in all of college basketball last season and had lots of interior help. Drummond played on a sub-standard Big East team that had just lost its best pg to the lottery the year before and played like the rudderless team it was all season.

So, a frosh averages 7.6 rebounds per game and he's a terrible rebounder--again, we can agree to disagree.

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If we are just looking at stats Hollinger had Drummond the 5th highest rated player in the draft. Defensive rebounding is a tough stat to judge someone off of, in a lot of ways it is a team statistic. Guys responsible for guarding the rim are often out of position for defensive rebounds, on the other end of the court he was very good at rebounding. Unlike Henson (because he is so thin) I am pretty confident that this guy projects to be relatively soon both a guy that will improve the Pistons help defense but also will be asset with his size and athleticism on the ball both weakness of Monroe. If he fulfills his potential he changes the destiny of this franchise and its hard for me not to be excited about this pick.

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I'm not really clear on what your point is here. On one hand, I claimed that comparing Ewings rebounds to Drummonds wasn't a good comparison because the competition was vastly different. You seem to agree with that and you agree that Ewing was better on every level. So do we agree that Ewing was a better rebounder at a similar stage of development as Drummond but played in a different era so the stats aren't necessarily reflective of that?

The Anthony Davis comparison is weird though. I never compared Davis' stats to Ewing's and why would I. I can compare them to Drummond since they played against a similar level of competition. Drummond's numbers don't look good compared to players right now. I don't think comparing college stats to college stats from 1983 is valid given the difference in the way the game has changed at that level.

If so I don't really disagree with anything else you've said about the state of basketball. Basketball has changed dramatically since then. There are more guys with height that can play wing positions than in the past and there is less emphasis on having athletes play center (partly because it's a waste of their talents. Sure, maybe Durant could be the best center in the league but he's already at that level at the 3 (ok Lebron is better, but Lebron could probably be a better center as well). But Drummond isn't a center because he wants to be a grinder (and neither is Howard). He's a center because he's not capable of anything else. He's an exceptional athlete for a center, but he doesn't have the handle or the shot (hell he can't even make 30% of his free throws right now) to play any wing position or even the PF position offensively. And defensively he's good at defending players in the post and being a help defender but he isn't good enough to be a one on one defender with even a good wing in the NBA.

I never said that Ewing's rebounding compared to Drummond's wasn't a good comparison, you did. My contention was that the level of play is lower at center than it was back then across the board, and that it is still relevant to compare the two. Center play has not changed like it has at the other positions, but the level of talent that plays there has across the board. Thus, when a guy averages about 7.5 REB in one era, you can indeed compare that to the guy who averages close to the same in the next--given the MP are close--and it is still valid. Sorry for not spelling that out as clearly as you would have liked me to.

Comparing Davis and Drummond's numbers is tougher, in spite of playing the same year, because Davis had a superior supporting cast. Just my opinion.

I don't know about you, but I never once saw Olajuwon play and thought, "Man, that dude should be out on the wing shooting 25' jumpers." When I see Durant play, and I did this with Sheed as well, I watch them jack up a contested bomb and I wonder why they felt that was the best way to assert themselves on offense when they are the best big on the floor and one of the most capable rebounders in the league when they feel like it? It is great to have diverse talents, and it is great to be a big that can stretch the defense. At the same time, it is sad to see so many bigs who want to live beyond the arc when they could be helping their team out either on the block, on the boards or in the high post. Just the old school in me, I guess.

Similarly, I watch Labron with his powerful body in the paint and I see a guy with the power of Barkley and the athleticism of Scottie Pippen. It is a waste that he doesn't punish teams more in the paint, as I don't think he's best suited starting the offense. Once again, it is great to have that skill set and I loved it when we could do something similar with Prince when he was younger. But Labron never has gotten the most out of his game, and he never will the way he plays. The scary part is, he's so talented and the league is so watered down it doesn't matter.

So back to Drummond, and Howard for that matter, they were born grinders just like Michael Oher was born to play left tackle, just like Jason Hanson was born to kick a football, and just like Justin Verlander was born to be a starting pitcher--no doubt about it, they are what they are. Thing is, they are valuable commodities because they are physical prototypes for their patricular positions whether it be their long, thick bodies, their broad shoulders and quick feet, their swivel hips, or their lightning bolts for arms. In particular to Drummond and Howard, it is great these players have these designated roles as to not dilute their destiny of living in the paint some 80+ games per year (God willing).

As I addressed before, and you didn't bite, center play is way down compared to the 80's and 90's. Are you not old enough to have seen that era of basketball? Even go back to the 60's and 70's, and the league had more quality bigs than it does now. Because of this, it allows Howard to look like 'Superman' and Drummond to come out of school at 18 and be drafted by a team who needs shot blocking desperately. The major lack of quality centers in the NBA gives Drummond a real shot to step in and not be completely over his head.

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Drummond's numbers don't look good compared to players right now.

His numbers do look good.

Drummond is a star athlete who averaged roughly 8 boards at 28 minutes per game as a college freshman. It is not complicated to forecast him as routinely bringing in double-digit boards per game in the NBA as he plays more minutes and develops further as a player.

When you denigrate his numbers in comparison to other college players, you are in almost every instance referring to older players that have improved significantly since they were themselves freshman. Compare Drummond to other major conference freshmen rather than upperclassmen.

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The more this pick sinks in, the more I cannot believe we got this kind of talent at center with the 9th pick.

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I am loving our good fortune.

And I am resolving to be grateful for whatever Andre grows into, skills-wise, as long as he puts in full effort. He doesn't have to be the next Dwight Howard... although I'd love it if he could get there.

The next Tyson Chandler, and I'd be good with that too.

It'll be fun to watch this team grow for the next several years...

And I'm hoping Dumars can clear cap space next year and get us an exciting Small Forward FA with some offensive skills... Then we'll see what that team can do...

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I am loving our good fortune.

And I am resolving to be grateful for whatever Andre grows into, skills-wise, as long as he puts in full effort. He doesn't have to be the next Dwight Howard... although I'd love it if he could get there.

The next Tyson Chandler, and I'd be good with that too.

It'll be fun to watch this team grow for the next several years...

And I'm hoping Dumars can clear cap space next year and get us an exciting Small Forward FA with some offensive skills... Then we'll see what that team can do...

He has already cleared cap space, either to sign free agents or be in a position to take picks/players as salary dumps next year.

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I am no expert on this, but I am glad to see Drummond fall to the Pistons.

I would like to see Will Buford signed for the summer team. I don't know if he has enough to make it in the NBA, his senior season slide from his junior season suggests probably not, but it'd be fun to see a local (to Toledo) kid make it on the Pistons.

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Keith Langlois ‏@Keith_Langlois

NBA TV will air #Pistons-Utah July 9 Orlando Summer League opener. Jazz expected to have Favors, Kanter. Big early test for Drummond

Definitely gonna try and catch this one. Excited to see Drummond even if it's Summer League.

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